Shamshir: Turkish or Syrian?

Rivkin · 23rd March 2006, 04:11 AM

well my knowledge of both languages is rudinmentary - eved, avod, I would not be able to tell the difference (I thought that they are both simply derived from "avod" - to work), however imho it is also "slave of god" in judaism as well - the one who studied a single passage 101 times.

Returning to arabic - I always was taught that abd is 100% slave, but on a very rare ocasion it can simply mean "black african", and in general _never_ being used to refer to a white-"blood tax", especially military slave.

ham · 23rd March 2006, 04:56 AM

Kyril,

I purposely chose the word 'servant' because 'slave' has a considerable number of negative cultural associations in England and America which I do not feel bear in the slightest on the discussion-- these tend to get us all off track easily and also seem to verge into issues which end up locked....

As for your other observations, I believe we are essentially making the same point.

Ham

ariel · 23rd March 2006, 09:28 AM

Just like "avoda" in Hebrew is " worship", perhaps "Abd-allah" is properly translated as " worshiper of God"?
I think we are at the end of our rope; we need a native Arabic speaker.

Andrew · 23rd March 2006, 01:54 PM

Mark Carter already posted on this thread. Hopefully he'll come back and jump in.

eftihis · 23rd March 2006, 02:12 PM

Hi, just to tell that almost all of Cretans that were converted to Islam after the conguest of Crete by the Ottomans in 1670 were named Abdullah. It is a name that was given to new converts. So in the turkish religious court papers we can read Abdullah, son of George and Maria etc...

Rivkin · 23rd March 2006, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Just like "avoda" in Hebrew is " worship", perhaps "Abd-allah" is properly translated as " worshiper of God"?
I think we are at the end of our rope; we need a native Arabic speaker.

Nagh, prayer is salat/namaz. I think ham already said it - abd literaly is a slave, but it does not really relates to our forum's topic.

ariel · 23rd March 2006, 08:25 PM

Prayer and worship are two different things. Again, in Hebrew they are Tfilah and Avoda, respectively. Abdallah is definitely not "praying to God", but could he be " worshipping God"?
Or, indeed, just as Rivkin said "God's slave"?

23rd March 2006, 04:11 AM	#1
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	well my knowledge of both languages is rudinmentary - eved, avod, I would not be able to tell the difference (I thought that they are both simply derived from "avod" - to work), however imho it is also "slave of god" in judaism as well - the one who studied a single passage 101 times. Returning to arabic - I always was taught that abd is 100% slave, but on a very rare ocasion it can simply mean "black african", and in general _never_ being used to refer to a white-"blood tax", especially military slave. Last edited by Rivkin; 23rd March 2006 at 04:28 AM.

23rd March 2006, 04:56 AM	#2
ham Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 190	Kyril, I purposely chose the word 'servant' because 'slave' has a considerable number of negative cultural associations in England and America which I do not feel bear in the slightest on the discussion-- these tend to get us all off track easily and also seem to verge into issues which end up locked.... As for your other observations, I believe we are essentially making the same point. Ham

23rd March 2006, 09:28 AM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Just like "avoda" in Hebrew is " worship", perhaps "Abd-allah" is properly translated as " worshiper of God"? I think we are at the end of our rope; we need a native Arabic speaker.

23rd March 2006, 01:54 PM	#4
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Mark Carter already posted on this thread. Hopefully he'll come back and jump in.

23rd March 2006, 02:12 PM	#5
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 511	Hi, just to tell that almost all of Cretans that were converted to Islam after the conguest of Crete by the Ottomans in 1670 were named Abdullah. It is a name that was given to new converts. So in the turkish religious court papers we can read Abdullah, son of George and Maria etc...

23rd March 2006, 08:25 PM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Prayer and worship are two different things. Again, in Hebrew they are Tfilah and Avoda, respectively. Abdallah is definitely not "praying to God", but could he be " worshipping God"? Or, indeed, just as Rivkin said "God's slave"?