Powder Flasks of Morocco

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Which do you say is Algerian?
Stu

The big one in the middle, a pure beauty!
You can see a lot of Ottoman influences, they didn't have the Ottomans in Morocco...
This is really a very cool stuff.

[rickystl]

Hi Stu.

Nice collection !! Yes, the variety is amazing. I think my favorite is the one in the top left corner.
Here are the only three "Moroccan" I have:

The one on the left is a great example of a tourist type flask. The hole in the spout does not go through the body of the fask. The front and back plates are only soldered in spots, versus the entire circumference. The carrying strap, while colorful, is thin cotton.

The horn is in very good, original shape. I added the carrying strap. It's tightly woven wool in an Ottoman pattern I ordered from Turkey.
The brass priming flask is old, with it's original strap, and still in usable condition.

I use both the horn and the primer to load the Moroccan musket. Adds to the fun. LOL

Rick

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Kubur

The big one in the middle, a pure beauty!
You can see a lot of Ottoman influences, they didn't have the Ottomans in Morocco...
This is really a very cool stuff.

This flask was discussed here>http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=23189
Stu

[kahnjar1]

Very nice "horn" flasks Kubur and Rick. Thanks for showing. I owned one of these several years ago but stupidly sold it. Have my eyes on another one but don't think the owner will part with it, but we shall see.............
Stu

[Kubur]

My two Moroccan babies

[TVV]

Stu,
That is a very impressive collection of Maghrebi powder flasks you have amassed, showcasing the extreme variety of shapes. My guess on why there are so many diverse forms in that area and Morocco in particular is that it is a result of the history of the region and the various outside influences in the design of firearms and accessories. Proximity to the Ottoman Empire introduced Middle Eastern forms, while the conflicts with Spain and Portugal, along with the Spanish mercenaries who defeated the Songhai Empire must have certainly introduced some Southern European forms. Then there are of course unique local berber designs, and there is clear adoption of Northern European powder flasks which probably came with the arms supplied by English and Dutch merchants in an effort to help an anti-Habsburg ally. Finally, when the French took over the Maghreb in the 19th century, it appears French forms were added to the variety, like a pear shaped brass flask I have - there is a similar one in Buttin for reference. I also suspect that in the second half of the 20th century there was some creativity in coming up with forms which may not be necessarily traditional, but which look interesting and were intended entirely for the souvenir trade.

Regards,
Teodor

[rickystl]

Originally Posted by Kubur

My two Moroccan babies

Hi Kubar

Very nice examples of the Beehive and Bottle style flasks. Curious most of these Moroccan style horns/flasks tend to be larger than their European counterparts.

Rick

[Philip]

Originally Posted by rickystl

Hi Kubar

Very nice examples of the Beehive and Bottle style flasks. Curious most of these Moroccan style horns/flasks tend to be larger than their European counterparts.

Rick

The size differential could be due to the necessity of using more powder in a load when the powder was weak. There exists a 1916 report by a French intelligence officer identified as Capt. Delhomme, entitled "Les armes dans le Sous Occidental" which describes the armament used by tribal peoples in Morocco, and his comments on gunpowder are interesting. Dehomme noted that powder was manufactured at various locales and that its quality was not consistent. The quality varied considerably from here to there. The overall market seemed to be rife with shoddy product made from inferior or adulterated materials, such as unrefined sulfur or sugar carbon (instead of proper charcoal). Powder made from the latter was weak and unstable, losing whatever potency it had after a couple months.

The report, in English summary, can be read in S. James Gooding's article "The Snaphance Muskets of al-Maghreb al-Aqsa" in the journal Arms Collecting, Vol 34, No. 3, pp 87-93.

The vagaries of unreliable supplies of good powder may also explain the preference for very long barrels, since the poor stuff was likely to be much slower-burning and thus it would be advantageous for the bullet to remain confined a bit longer to allow sufficient combustion pressure to build before it left the muzzle. Likewise the tendency of native firearms in some tropical areas to have excessively long barrels (by Western standards) due to the moisture-absorbing nature of the charcoal in gunpowder, affecting its performance in humid climates. But this is perhaps best saved for another thread since this topic started out with flasks and should probably stay there

[Ian]

Originally Posted by Philip

The size differential [between European and Moroccan flasks] could be due to the necessity of [the latter] using more powder in a load when the powder was weak. There exists a 1916 report by a French intelligence officer identified as Capt. Delhomme, entitled "Les armes dans le Sous Occidental" which describes the armament used by tribal peoples in Morocco, and his comments on gunpowder are interesting. Dehomme noted that powder was manufactured at various locales and that its quality was not consistent. The quality varied considerably from here to there. The overall market seemed to be rife with shoddy product made from inferior or adulterated materials, such as unrefined sulfur or sugar carbon (instead of proper charcoal). Powder made from the latter was weak and unstable, losing whatever potency it had after a couple months.

The report, in English summary, can be read in S. James Gooding's article "The Snaphance Muskets of al-Maghreb al-Aqsa" in the journal Arms Collecting, Vol 34, No. 3, pp 87-93.

The vagaries of unreliable supplies of good powder may also explain the preference for very long barrels, since the poor stuff was likely to be much slower-burning and thus it would be advantageous for the bullet to remain confined a bit longer to allow sufficient combustion pressure to build before it left the muzzle. Likewise the tendency of native firearms in some tropical areas to have excessively long barrels (by Western standards) due to the moisture-absorbing nature of the charcoal in gunpowder, affecting its performance in humid climates.

As noted, this is indeed worthy of a new thread.

Ian.