Shotley Bridge swordmakers

Hotspur · 26th November 2017, 10:14 PM

Nope. Originallly mid west US

urbanspaceman · 1st December 2017, 11:08 PM

During my endless searches for examples of SB blades I occasionally come across interesting examples and such was the case this evening.
The first is a Scottish (long) dirk dating to c.1720 according to the dealer made from a cut-down backsword blade.
(Apparently, after swords were banned in Scotland following the 1715 rebellion, attempts were made to lengthen the dirk to give a degree of decent protection; hence this example.)
So-far, so well-known, amongst the cognoscenti; the curiosity is the marking on the blade: see image.
The second is described by the dealer as a late 17th C. Shotley Bridge Smallsword with 'TLE xx on one side and Bridg xx on the other plus a running fox; see image.

urbanspaceman · 1st December 2017, 11:16 PM

sorry, this image didn't upload the first time.
The second is described by the dealer as a late 17th C. Shotley Bridge Smallsword with 'TLE xx on one side and Bridg xx on the other plus a running fox; see image.
Sorry the resolution is poor but it's a bushy tailed fox.

Hotspur · 4th December 2017, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbanspaceman

sorry, this image didn't upload the first time.
The second is described by the dealer as a late 17th C. Shotley Bridge Smallsword with 'TLE xx on one side and Bridg xx on the other plus a running fox; see image.
Sorry the resolution is poor but it's a bushy tailed fox.

Hmm, and not a hollow sword grind but rather a hexagonal cross section..

Cheers

GC

urbanspaceman · 4th December 2017, 05:05 PM

Do we think this may be a re-hilting of a cut-down broadsword blade?
Can you tell by observation of the blade?

Hotspur · 5th December 2017, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbanspaceman

Do we think this may be a re-hilting of a cut-down broadsword blade?

No

Quote:

Can you tell by observation of the blade?

Yes

urbanspaceman · 5th December 2017, 08:57 PM

So, we have an image of a genuine SB small-sword then: surely a rarity.
Has anyone else ever seen such a thing?

Jim McDougall · 18th January 2019, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotspur

Hmm, and not a hollow sword grind but rather a hexagonal cross section..

Cheers

GC

Well it has indeed been a LOOOOONG intermission

but hope we can get back to this great discussion. What it great is that Keith, Ibrahiim and Mr, Madisson (I hope he comes back) are natives to these very areas of Shotley, and while obviously very long ago, its fascinating to have the present day contexts added.

As GC has noted on this 'Shotley Bridge' smallsword the blade is indeed hexagonally sectioned rather than 'hollow ground. The figure on the blade is the 'bushy tail fox' rather than the running wolf typically presumed on blades from Shotley.
The hexagon section in of the style produced typically in Solingen in the 18th c. if I understand correctly, but the BTF (bushy tail fox) is from strictly Birmingham use. Perhaps this blade was imported from Solingen (as many were) into Birmingham, but the BTF was it seems placed by the makers in Birmingham (Samuel Harvey and Dawes) but I believe on their own blades.
It would seem this sword was hilted by local artisans, but why purported to be Shotley is unclear. Obviously the value to collectors would increase with the Shotley attribution.

Good to see this thread back 'on gear', and look forward to continuing this look into British sword and blade production on 17th-18th c. This is a sword 'mystery' seldom deeply attended in references, so looking forward to contributions from others with these interests as well as more from GC and Mr. Madisson.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 15th February 2019, 11:09 AM

urbanspaceman · 15th February 2019, 10:41 PM

As may easily be discerned, I have been away a long time, but my research into The Shotley Bridge Swordmakers has continued apace, albeit with a three month hiatus beginning last November.
I have accumulated a vast amount of research material, and reached several contentious conclusions regarding the SB story as told over the last 300 years or more.
I probably have BBC4 on board with regard to a documentary; although you never can tell for sure with Aunty.
I have still got a lot of research to do - in particular in Solingen - and some of it will require a professional researcher to achieve some degree of irrefutable evidence; again, the Beeb may be of use here, but I also have two or three eminent individuals in the pipeline waiting for my resurgence.
As I am setting off on further travels soon, I doubt I will have much to offer this thread for the next few weeks or more. However, my final travels will be to Klingenthal and Solingen, then London and hopefully on return the final pieces of the jigsaw will be put in place.
The Royal Armoury publications division are interested in the book when it is ready and again, hopefully, they may be able to assist me in various vague areas.
One of the most trying issues regarding SB swords is that apart from the initial output that were actually inscribed with the place name there is - to date - no way of determining what is an SB blade and what isn't. Tang markings may well prove illuminating but getting the funding to scan museum items may well prove a bit difficult... but not impossible - especially if the BBC comes on-board. Watch this space folks.

1st December 2017, 11:08 PM	#2
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 605	endless search During my endless searches for examples of SB blades I occasionally come across interesting examples and such was the case this evening. The first is a Scottish (long) dirk dating to c.1720 according to the dealer made from a cut-down backsword blade. (Apparently, after swords were banned in Scotland following the 1715 rebellion, attempts were made to lengthen the dirk to give a degree of decent protection; hence this example.) So-far, so well-known, amongst the cognoscenti; the curiosity is the marking on the blade: see image. The second is described by the dealer as a late 17th C. Shotley Bridge Smallsword with 'TLE xx on one side and Bridg xx on the other plus a running fox; see image. Attached Images

1st December 2017, 11:16 PM	#3
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 605	second blade sorry, this image didn't upload the first time. The second is described by the dealer as a late 17th C. Shotley Bridge Smallsword with 'TLE xx on one side and Bridg xx on the other plus a running fox; see image. Sorry the resolution is poor but it's a bushy tailed fox. Attached Images

4th December 2017, 05:05 PM	#5
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 605	hollow promises Do we think this may be a re-hilting of a cut-down broadsword blade? Can you tell by observation of the blade?

5th December 2017, 08:57 PM	#7
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 605	Ah So! So, we have an image of a genuine SB small-sword then: surely a rarity. Has anyone else ever seen such a thing?

15th February 2019, 11:09 AM	#9
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 15th February 2019 at 11:21 AM.

26th November 2017, 10:14 PM	#1
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 512	Nope. Originallly mid west US

15th February 2019, 10:41 PM	#10
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 605	return of the prodigal As may easily be discerned, I have been away a long time, but my research into The Shotley Bridge Swordmakers has continued apace, albeit with a three month hiatus beginning last November. I have accumulated a vast amount of research material, and reached several contentious conclusions regarding the SB story as told over the last 300 years or more. I probably have BBC4 on board with regard to a documentary; although you never can tell for sure with Aunty. I have still got a lot of research to do - in particular in Solingen - and some of it will require a professional researcher to achieve some degree of irrefutable evidence; again, the Beeb may be of use here, but I also have two or three eminent individuals in the pipeline waiting for my resurgence. As I am setting off on further travels soon, I doubt I will have much to offer this thread for the next few weeks or more. However, my final travels will be to Klingenthal and Solingen, then London and hopefully on return the final pieces of the jigsaw will be put in place. The Royal Armoury publications division are interested in the book when it is ready and again, hopefully, they may be able to assist me in various vague areas. One of the most trying issues regarding SB swords is that apart from the initial output that were actually inscribed with the place name there is - to date - no way of determining what is an SB blade and what isn't. Tang markings may well prove illuminating but getting the funding to scan museum items may well prove a bit difficult... but not impossible - especially if the BBC comes on-board. Watch this space folks.