KASKARA for comments

[Jim McDougall]

You bet!
In my opinion most of these thuluth covered weapons were either produced or imported and decorated at Omdurman during the Khalifa's time (1885-98). These thuluth (script) etchings were essentially couplets which were repetitive into an almost Arabesque motif as an invocation/imbuement.
There are accounts of the considerable weaponry retrieved at Omdurman, many with such decoration as well as crocodile and lizard skin (as on your hilt) mounts.

In many cases these weapons were to the chiefs or key figures in the many slave oriented elements of these forces, conscripted in other regions and often using their favored weapon forms. The throwing knives and other unusual forms not indigenous to Sudan are often among these.

The polearms with huge (almost ace of spades looking) blade covered in thuluth were often used by these key figures in units for formation of troops, much like a unit guidon, and termed 'alem'.

[thinreadline]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

You bet!
In my opinion most of these thuluth covered weapons were either produced or imported and decorated at Omdurman during the Khalifa's time (1885-98). These thuluth (script) etchings were essentially couplets which were repetitive into an almost Arabesque motif as an invocation/imbuement.
There are accounts of the considerable weaponry retrieved at Omdurman, many with such decoration as well as crocodile and lizard skin (as on your hilt) mounts.

In many cases these weapons were to the chiefs or key figures in the many slave oriented elements of these forces, conscripted in other regions and often using their favored weapon forms. The throwing knives and other unusual forms not indigenous to Sudan are often among these.

The polearms with huge (almost ace of spades looking) blade covered in thuluth were often used by these key figures in units for formation of troops, much like a unit guidon, and termed 'alem'.

This is extremely interesting Jim , one never stops learning . Much appreciated . I saw many interesting examples last year at the Topkapi Palace museum of alem , yet did not make the Sudan connection at the time ... but now you have pointed this out , it makes sense of some of the items in my collection thus decorated and yet clearly not usable as weapons .

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The Mahdi situation is extremely interesting not least in the big battle at Omdurman where the tribal infantry of the Mahdi forces ran into a wall of lead from the new British machine guns...and the massed gunfire of the Martini Henry. It was amazing that the flags they were waving were believed to protect them from harm as were the clothes they wore and probably the talisman effect of their
profusely decorated weapons.

[Jim McDougall]

Excellent illustrations Ibrahiim! and well noted about the talismanic properties of weapons as well as the flags. There are considerable details and intriguing descriptions of these properties which truly add dimension to the appreciation of these, however perhaps too much to add here.

[thinreadline]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

The Mahdi situation is extremely interesting not least in the big battle at Omdurman where the tribal infantry of the Mahdi forces ran into a wall of lead from the new British machine guns...and the massed gunfire of the Martini Henry. It was amazing that the flags they were waving were believed to protect them from harm as were the clothes they wore and probably the talisman effect of their
profusely decorated weapons.

... and of course the 8,000 British troops were armed with the magazine fed Lee Metford rifle ..

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by thinreadline

... and of course the 8,000 British troops were armed with the magazine fed Lee Metford rifle ..

You are right; the majority of British troops had the Lee Metford and or the Lee Enfield. With the earlier ammunition this may still have caused obscuring of targets through smoke . For a general impression of weaponry I site http://obscurebattles.blogspot.com/2...rman-1898.html where it states Quote''

Firepower.
Firepower was clearly in the allied camp. The Anglo-Egyptian army was equipped with the latest in artillery, small arms, and ammunition. Some historians have armed the British infantry in the Sudan with the Lee-Metford magazine-fed, bolt-action rifle. While this was still a black-powder weapon (meaning it would have enshrouded a firing line in choking smoke), it had a max range of 1,800 yards, a ten round magazine, adjustable sites and was capable of laying down an incredible amount of fire on a distant mass target like 17,000 Dervishes. My own research has indicated that most of the crack infantry (in which I'd count the regiments present at Omdurman, like the Grenadier Guards) were already being given the smokeless-powder version of this rifle, the Lee-Enfield, which was to become the standard British infantry weapon until the 1950s.

Martini Henry. The Egyptian and Sudanese troops were armed with the older Martini-Henry (the infamous rifle of Isandhalwana legend), a single shot breechloader using black powder ammunition (which would have obscured the target from a firing line after just a few rounds). However, by 1898 the Martini was a rugged, reliable weapon with a max range comparable to the Lee-Metford and a rate of fire of 12 rpm. While the Dervishes were able to get closer to the Egyptians and Sudanese regiments than they were to the British, they were still stopped dead at several hundred yards. One lone, old man carrying a flag was said to have staggered to within potato-chucking distance of MacDonald's brigade, only to have been shot down clutching his flag, bless his heart.

Maxim Machine Guns.Then we have to consider the dozens of Maxim machine guns on the allied side. The Maxim was a breakthrough in machine gun design, which had, from the Gatling to the mitrailleuse, been prone to jamming at the worst possible time. But the Maxim, water-cooled and belt-fed with a single barrel, was far more reliable. It put out a rate of fire of 550 rpm, so that a couple of men manning one could be worth a whole company. These guns, and other water-cooled versions based on its original design, would also be widely used during the First World War by all sides, and were still in wide use during the Second World War.

Artillery. The allies also enjoyed an overwhelming advantage in artillery. The 52 guns in the army and on the gunboats were quick-firing, extremely accurate out to over 3,000 yards, and lobbed a high-explosive lyddite shell that had more destructive force than anything seen in prior wars. These guns were also a staple of the wars of the early and mid-twentieth century. So what we have in the allied force that faced the Ansar at Omdurman was essentially a fully modern army, armed with everything the armies had in WWI except airplanes and tanks.''Unquote.

A good history and development detail can be seen at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxim_gun whilst below shows the weapon and its inventor; American-British inventor Hiram Stevens Maxim in 1883.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

To give some idea of the graphic nature of business at Omdurman ~

[thinreadline]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

You are right; the majority of British troops had the Lee Metford and or the Lee Enfield. With the earlier ammunition this may still have caused obscuring of targets through smoke . For a general impression of weaponry I site http://obscurebattles.blogspot.com/2...rman-1898.html where it states Quote''

Firepower.
Firepower was clearly in the allied camp. The Anglo-Egyptian army was equipped with the latest in artillery, small arms, and ammunition. Some historians have armed the British infantry in the Sudan with the Lee-Metford magazine-fed, bolt-action rifle. While this was still a black-powder weapon (meaning it would have enshrouded a firing line in choking smoke), it had a max range of 1,800 yards, a ten round magazine, adjustable sites and was capable of laying down an incredible amount of fire on a distant mass target like 17,000 Dervishes. My own research has indicated that most of the crack infantry (in which I'd count the regiments present at Omdurman, like the Grenadier Guards) were already being given the smokeless-powder version of this rifle, the Lee-Enfield, which was to become the standard British infantry weapon until the 1950s.

Martini Henry. The Egyptian and Sudanese troops were armed with the older Martini-Henry (the infamous rifle of Isandhalwana legend), a single shot breechloader using black powder ammunition (which would have obscured the target from a firing line after just a few rounds). However, by 1898 the Martini was a rugged, reliable weapon with a max range comparable to the Lee-Metford and a rate of fire of 12 rpm. While the Dervishes were able to get closer to the Egyptians and Sudanese regiments than they were to the British, they were still stopped dead at several hundred yards. One lone, old man carrying a flag was said to have staggered to within potato-chucking distance of MacDonald's brigade, only to have been shot down clutching his flag, bless his heart.

Maxim Machine Guns.Then we have to consider the dozens of Maxim machine guns on the allied side. The Maxim was a breakthrough in machine gun design, which had, from the Gatling to the mitrailleuse, been prone to jamming at the worst possible time. But the Maxim, water-cooled and belt-fed with a single barrel, was far more reliable. It put out a rate of fire of 550 rpm, so that a couple of men manning one could be worth a whole company. These guns, and other water-cooled versions based on its original design, would also be widely used during the First World War by all sides, and were still in wide use during the Second World War.

Artillery. The allies also enjoyed an overwhelming advantage in artillery. The 52 guns in the army and on the gunboats were quick-firing, extremely accurate out to over 3,000 yards, and lobbed a high-explosive lyddite shell that had more destructive force than anything seen in prior wars. These guns were also a staple of the wars of the early and mid-twentieth century. So what we have in the allied force that faced the Ansar at Omdurman was essentially a fully modern army, armed with everything the armies had in WWI except airplanes and tanks.''Unquote.

A good history and development detail can be seen at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxim_gun whilst below shows the weapon and its inventor; American-British inventor Hiram Stevens Maxim in 1883.

I dont know , but the smokeless 303 cartridge was introduced in the British Army in 1891 so it seems probable to me that it was widespread by 1898 , however with the 17,000 Egyptians firing blackpowder cartridges , I am sure it would soon have become a fog of war !

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Mk4 hollow point bullets from the DumDum factory made their first appearance here... A devastating round.

The order of Battle was as you say ...or put by one account as; ...The battle took place at Kerreri, 11 kilometres (6.8 mi) north of Omdurman. Kitchener commanded a force of 8,000 British regulars and a mixed force of 17,000 Sudanese and Egyptian troops. He arrayed his force in an arc around the village of Egeiga, close to the bank of the Nile, where a twelve gunboat flotilla waited in support, facing a wide, flat plain with hills rising to the left and right. The British and Egyptian cavalry were placed on either flank.

Abdullah's followers, calling themselves the Ansar and known to the British as the Dervishes, numbered around 50,000, including some 3,000 cavalry. They were split into five groups—a force of 8,000 under Osman Azrak was arrayed directly opposite the British, in a shallow arc along a mile (1.6 km) of a low ridge leading onto the plain, and the other Mahdist forces were initially concealed from Kitchener's force. Abdullah al-Taashi and 17,000 men were concealed behind the Surgham Hills to the west and rear of Osman Azrak's force, with 20,000 more positioned to the north-west, close to the front behind the Kerreri hills, commanded by Ali-Wad-Helu and Sheikh ed-Din. A final force of around 8,000 was gathered on the slope on the right flank of Azrak's force.