Is This A Pala With An Indian Blade?

Aslan Paladin · 14th October 2017, 08:37 PM

I can't remember if the blade I saw also had the katar mark. Since I didn't recognize it was a katar it didn't leave a lasting impression on me. I thought I saved the image but I can't find it in my laptop files. I'm still skimming through the past forum threads again to find it but I am sure it is here.

Aslan Paladin · 14th October 2017, 09:00 PM

The grip strap is plain brass with no decorative marks and the hilt is covered with a black velvet cloth secured by black string wound around numerous times in a random manner, leaving only the pommel exposed (although I did push the lower edge of the cloth back to expose a few millimeters of the body of the brass cross guard). Kubur unfortunately I don't have any other hilt wrapping which came with the sword. Jens that was also my initial thought, that the blade may have actually belonged to a tegha. But the width of the widest part of the blade (the yelman) is less than 2 inches wide, I don't know if that would qualify it as such. Maybe more of a tegha-like blade perhaps? Marius I agree with you and am open to the idea that it could have actually no Ottoman connection whatsoever since I haven't seen of any kilij with an Indian sword before and the hilt is sub par as compared to others. But on the other hand I am curious why should this apparently Indian blade be given a Turkish-style hilt by it's maker (why not a tulwar hilt which makes more sense IMHO). I don't know if it's a later marriage but as far as I can see the way the blade is secured to the hilt it does not show evidence of modern adhesive. I compared the adhesives used in the 3 Turkish-hilted swords I have and they all look the same to me. By the way when I received this sword the entire blade was covered in rust (same appearance as the remaining rust under the langets).

Aslan Paladin · 14th October 2017, 09:09 PM

I want to remove the velvet covering but I am discouraged by the thought of seeing what horror it is concealing underneath. I did take a peak underneath the edge covering the pommel and I saw part of the wooden grip just gone. So I could imagine large sections of the grip with gaps and probably the brass grip strap would have extensive losses as well. And I don't think there is anyone in town who can professionally restore the grip in case I decide to pursue that course anyway.

Jens Nordlunde · 14th October 2017, 09:28 PM

I dont know about the hilt, but there was in different parts of India a very big influence from Turky, Persia and Afghanistan.

Aslan Paladin · 14th October 2017, 09:51 PM

I would assume most likely Northern India? Rajasthan? By the way I found this thread discussing the katar stamp while I was looking for the similar-bladed tulwar I mentioned earlier http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=tulwar

Kubur · 14th October 2017, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aslan Paladin

I want to remove the velvet covering but I am discouraged by the thought of seeing what horror it is concealing underneath.(

Please don't remove this velvet, it's very are to have a hilt with the original wrapping!
To me it gives some value to your sword.
Here you have a wrapping around an Ottoman kilij...

Kubur · 14th October 2017, 09:59 PM

To me the joint and the guard are very similar.
It's a very cool sword, maybe a tegha blade or an Afghan blade is it possible?
Look at the wrapping here...

Kubur · 14th October 2017, 10:05 PM

and a final word, remember that Persians did also this kind of blade.
Here an Ottoman pala with a Persian blade.
To me your sword is Ottoman because of the hilt but with an Indo Persian blade.

Aslan Paladin · 14th October 2017, 10:11 PM

I have tracked down the tulwar with the similar blade profile (its blade looks wider, although mine could have had several sharpening thus accounting for the slimmer look). The contour of the spine is identical, both have gorda/eye lash marks as well as maker/armoury (?) marks at the base of the blade (although not the same katar stamps). Here is the link http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=tulwar

Aslan Paladin · 14th October 2017, 10:22 PM

Thanks Kubur, for a moment there I was at a loss with regards to what I should call this sword given the suggestions to its origin. Anyway regardless of the right terminology I love this sword. For me it's Ottoman pala with Indo-Persian blade then as you have opined. And with regards to the velvet wrapping of the hilt, it actually lends a significant amount of comfort when I grip the handle. So I'll keep it as is (and you persuaded me with the very valid reasons you presented earlier).

14th October 2017, 09:00 PM	#2
Aslan Paladin Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Te Aroha, New Zealand Posts: 122	The grip strap is plain brass with no decorative marks and the hilt is covered with a black velvet cloth secured by black string wound around numerous times in a random manner, leaving only the pommel exposed (although I did push the lower edge of the cloth back to expose a few millimeters of the body of the brass cross guard). Kubur unfortunately I don't have any other hilt wrapping which came with the sword. Jens that was also my initial thought, that the blade may have actually belonged to a tegha. But the width of the widest part of the blade (the yelman) is less than 2 inches wide, I don't know if that would qualify it as such. Maybe more of a tegha-like blade perhaps? Marius I agree with you and am open to the idea that it could have actually no Ottoman connection whatsoever since I haven't seen of any kilij with an Indian sword before and the hilt is sub par as compared to others. But on the other hand I am curious why should this apparently Indian blade be given a Turkish-style hilt by it's maker (why not a tulwar hilt which makes more sense IMHO). I don't know if it's a later marriage but as far as I can see the way the blade is secured to the hilt it does not show evidence of modern adhesive. I compared the adhesives used in the 3 Turkish-hilted swords I have and they all look the same to me. By the way when I received this sword the entire blade was covered in rust (same appearance as the remaining rust under the langets). Attached Images

14th October 2017, 09:09 PM	#3
Aslan Paladin Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Te Aroha, New Zealand Posts: 122	I want to remove the velvet covering but I am discouraged by the thought of seeing what horror it is concealing underneath. I did take a peak underneath the edge covering the pommel and I saw part of the wooden grip just gone. So I could imagine large sections of the grip with gaps and probably the brass grip strap would have extensive losses as well. And I don't think there is anyone in town who can professionally restore the grip in case I decide to pursue that course anyway. Last edited by Aslan Paladin; 15th October 2017 at 09:44 AM.

14th October 2017, 09:51 PM	#5
Aslan Paladin Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Te Aroha, New Zealand Posts: 122	I would assume most likely Northern India? Rajasthan? By the way I found this thread discussing the katar stamp while I was looking for the similar-bladed tulwar I mentioned earlier http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=tulwar Attached Images Last edited by Aslan Paladin; 14th October 2017 at 10:50 PM.

14th October 2017, 09:59 PM	#7
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	To me the joint and the guard are very similar. It's a very cool sword, maybe a tegha blade or an Afghan blade is it possible? Look at the wrapping here... Attached Images

14th October 2017, 10:05 PM	#8
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	and a final word, remember that Persians did also this kind of blade. Here an Ottoman pala with a Persian blade. To me your sword is Ottoman because of the hilt but with an Indo Persian blade. Attached Images

14th October 2017, 08:37 PM	#1
Aslan Paladin Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Te Aroha, New Zealand Posts: 122	I can't remember if the blade I saw also had the katar mark. Since I didn't recognize it was a katar it didn't leave a lasting impression on me. I thought I saved the image but I can't find it in my laptop files. I'm still skimming through the past forum threads again to find it but I am sure it is here.

14th October 2017, 09:28 PM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	I dont know about the hilt, but there was in different parts of India a very big influence from Turky, Persia and Afghanistan.

14th October 2017, 10:11 PM	#9
Aslan Paladin Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Te Aroha, New Zealand Posts: 122	I have tracked down the tulwar with the similar blade profile (its blade looks wider, although mine could have had several sharpening thus accounting for the slimmer look). The contour of the spine is identical, both have gorda/eye lash marks as well as maker/armoury (?) marks at the base of the blade (although not the same katar stamps). Here is the link http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=tulwar Attached Images Last edited by Aslan Paladin; 14th October 2017 at 11:14 PM.

14th October 2017, 10:22 PM	#10
Aslan Paladin Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Te Aroha, New Zealand Posts: 122	Thanks Kubur, for a moment there I was at a loss with regards to what I should call this sword given the suggestions to its origin. Anyway regardless of the right terminology I love this sword. For me it's Ottoman pala with Indo-Persian blade then as you have opined. And with regards to the velvet wrapping of the hilt, it actually lends a significant amount of comfort when I grip the handle. So I'll keep it as is (and you persuaded me with the very valid reasons you presented earlier). Last edited by Aslan Paladin; 14th October 2017 at 10:36 PM.