Shotley Bridge swordmakers

[urbanspaceman]

Sorry Mel, I wasn't paying attention: you are from the North East, so you will know all about those two revered sanctums.

[urbanspaceman]

I heard about an article, published in a local newspaper back in 1984, telling of a new permanent exhibition at one of our local museums (the one with Lord Gort's five SB swords on display; now ended) which was a transcription of details given by the curator.
Two pieces of information appear (there may be more but the microfiche was badly taken so some of the article is missing; another job for tomorrow) that I feel are worth posting as the curator had done his homework (I recently read all his notes at our local archives) so here they are:
[IMG]

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Most interesting signs ...It still never actually says Colichemarde though... Only hollow blades... Do they mean hollow sharpening?

Welcome to the Forum to Mel H. That's two Northern members...an army almost !!

[urbanspaceman]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Most interesting signs ...It still never actually says Colichemarde though... Only hollow blades... Do they mean hollow sharpening.

Hello Ibrahiim. Re. the above: I notice that it costs a £1.0s.0d. for a 'Hollow' blade in contrast to £1.10s a dozen for other blades: essentially twelve times as much. This has to be for something more than a sharpening, or even a fuller of one sort or another. Perhaps these were the blades smuggled in from Solingen. If they wanted to sell hollow blades, even at such a price, that price had to be very competitive compared with the 'official' Solingen blades imported with appropriate duty paid.
There is that mention in a letter to Cotesworth that tells of a 'Gent' in London having to 'venture' £8.00 for a decent sword; so even after the hilting and etc., £1.0s.0d. for the blade was more than acceptable.
On another note: it appears that Carnforth was actively involved in the setting up of SB in advance of the 19 arriving. I suspect it was a joint arrangement with the Hounslow three and the Syndicate, plus Vinting. I'm using that as a working hypothesis for the time being anyway but happy to be shot down whenever.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by urbanspaceman

Hello Ibrahiim. Re. the above: I notice that it costs a £1.0s.0d. for a 'Hollow' blade in contrast to £1.10s a dozen for other blades: essentially twelve times as much. This has to be for something more than a sharpening, or even a fuller of one sort or another. Perhaps these were the blades smuggled in from Solingen. If they wanted to sell hollow blades, even at such a price, that price had to be very competitive compared with the 'official' Solingen blades imported with appropriate duty paid.
There is that mention in a letter to Cotesworth that tells of a 'Gent' in London having to 'venture' £8.00 for a decent sword; so even after the hilting and etc., £1.0s.0d. for the blade was more than acceptable.
On another note: it appears that Carnforth was actively involved in the setting up of SB in advance of the 19 arriving. I suspect it was a joint arrangement with the Hounslow three and the Syndicate, plus Vinting. I'm using that as a working hypothesis for the time being anyway but happy to be shot down whenever.

As I note from a previous post what is the difference between a Hollow blade and hollow grinding. I assume hollow blade means the Colichemarde form so far as I can see never done in Shotley Bridge..I cannot believe that this could be done by hand. Hollow grinding however was something different and possible on the flat blades Shotley was turning out.

Regarding Hollow Blade machinery~ what was that? I have tried to reverse engineer this problem ~ Indications are that it was connected to small wheels as a concept. Small grinding wheels a half inch across up to about an inch across perhaps set up on a machine of quite simple mechanics. 3 small spinning grinding wheels; Inch, half inch and quarter inch diameter placed so they are almost touching in concentric form with the Colichemarde shape in the centre. Starting with the basic blade shape of triangular main blade and a flat top cross section of about 12 inches. Several sets of these (three wheels) to cover the diminishing size of the blade moving toward the tip and that's the sword done. Final sharpening and sword complete . Without the concentric grinding wheels this would take forever.

To remind readers about the basics on Colichemarde~From https://www.knifeplanet.net/buyers-g...words-reviews/ Quote "While the Rapier and the Small Sword are both excellent civilian weapons, they were both specifically designed for fencing with an unarmored opponent with a blade of similar weight and design. However, when facing and opponent wielding a much heavier military style blade, they both have the distinct disadvantage of being prone to break when used to parry a powerful slashing cut.

Therefore, the Colichemarde Sword was specifically designed to provide civilians with a sword that retained the speed of a Rapier and the convenience of a Small Sword but, which was also capable of parrying a blow from a much heavier sword without fear of it breaking. Therefore, the blade of the Colichemarde Sword consists of a heavy duty parrying forte combined with a much lighter and thinner cutting and stabbing section to provide a civilian swordsman with the ability to defend himself from opponents wielding much heavier, military style, blades."Unquote.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I have notes indicating that hollow blades were found dumped in the Estuary ... This means probably that hollow blades had been entering the system at Shotley...If this was only for polishing and hilting this could have been done ...
At https://www.goodreads.com/author_blo...-their-strange The Author Helen Steadman speaks about the Richardson book but it can be seen that Richardson is unable to substantiate a number of details including the radio active water comment supposedly good for the steel treatment process...and said to be an advantage of Derwent water...
Richardson refers to the court papers from the quarter sessions (Northumberland Record Office), and he mentions various letters and statements, so these will be useful to check when I begin the archive work. Quote"He explores the notion of Mohll’s involvement with the Jacobites, but dismisses this, saying ‘that no plots were uncovered’ (p.45). He also refers to there being only hollow blades dumped in the river (p.46), and wonders at Mohll’s release, suggesting ‘Herman Mohll himself must have been surprised and certainly must have sensed an unseen kindly hand’ (p.46)."Unquote.

However a number of indicators are not substantiated in the Richardson book such as THE WATER AT THE SPA WAS SUPPOSEDLY SLIGHTLY RADIO ACTIVE AS SPA WATER OFTEN IS...BUT THAT IS NOT DERWENT WATER BUT DRAWN FROM A WELL.

I somehow doubt that Richardson was pinpoint accurate when he noted that these Hollow Swords were all that was dumped ...Did he mean Colichemarde or flat blades Hollow Ground?

[kronckew]

colchemarde blades were not necessarily hollow ground on three sides of a triangle, they were small swords where the initial forte section was very noticeably wider to allow for a strong parry, like the one below. some had a noticeable central ridge, some had forged in fullers, some had shallow triangular x-sections with a 'hollow ground' fuller on one side, flat on the other two. some had flat hexagon shapes. simply put in other words, they varied in x-section like any other sword...

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kronckew

colchemarde blades were not necessarily hollow ground on three sides of a triangle, they were small swords where the initial forte section was very noticeably wider to allow for a strong parry, like the one below. some had a noticeable central ridge, some had forged in fullers, some had shallow triangular x-sections with a 'hollow ground' fuller on one side, flat on the other two. some had flat hexagon shapes. simply put in other words, they varied in x-section like any other sword...

That is interesting. I note also a false hollow form with a different x section. However for the discussion we cannot find any x form Colichimarde or anything resembling it made at the Shotley Bridge Factory. The reference material confuses (I suspect) hollow ground edges on flat blades, with hollow swords of the Colichemarde form.