Pirate graves n NC?

Pukka Bundook · 8th October 2017, 02:26 PM

Any chance of these unknowns being plague victims or some such?

Just a thought,...based on ignorance!
I have the notion that murderers were buried in unmarked graves, and that those who committed suicide were buried on unconsecrated ground...

Richard.

CutlassCollector · 8th October 2017, 07:42 PM

Spooky and interesting post Mark.

Hey, I believe they are pirate graves for sure. Sailors home from the sea.
CC

M ELEY · 9th October 2017, 03:36 AM

Thanks for the vote, CC! Of course, we are only guessing. NC was considered a maritime colony and has a lot of interesting and strange history, especially in the area mentioned (Salisbury,NC). Check out this other well known local mystery. I include it to just to show that there are 'stranger things under the sun'.

http://www.atlasobscura.com/places/g...ter-stuart-ney

Richard, plague was one of the theories presented in the search for information on these graves, but why punish the dead with no names? If it were a mass grave, why in the middle of a well preserved church cemetery? I guess they might have been travelers/strangers with no identification-

You bring up a good point. Many murderers were indeed buried in unmarked graves, but usually unconsecrated ground so as not to 'pollute' the other graves. Unconsecrated ground also served as a punishment and a message, these villains were not in heaven...or so the belief goes.

Of course, pirate burials were also on unconsecrated ground when maritime law was in place. The pirate was executed at the 'high water mark' when the tide was out, symbolizing that the criminals were punished by the laws of the sea and not the land courts. Their bodies were left for three ebb tides to wash over their bodies, further signifying that their execution was under naval regulations. They were then buried at the waterline or in some other unconsecrated area away from any churchyard.

If we believe the rumors, the story says they had joined the community and hid their past. When discovered, they were punished accordingly by a court far from the ocean and given (at least) burial in the cemetery.

Are there any other reasons these graves might not be labeled if not murderers or pirates? Could they be house slaves? Symbolic markers for some past event??

Pukka Bundook · 9th October 2017, 04:13 AM

Good points, M.
Still mulling this over.

Have you a spade? (!)
If you Do, I can think of one method to narrow this down a bit. :-)
(18" tall would mean likely not a pirate....)

I can think of a good few English engravings, were we see deaths head or the grim reaper, but how this ties in I see not.

Another loose thought, is how certain British regiments used the skull & crossbones, but can't see how this would tie in.

To me, the plague and "unknown" still seems a good bet.

M ELEY · 11th October 2017, 12:58 AM

Oh wow, Richard! What a great idea about the spade!!

Good points on regimental skull/bones for certain units, but I feel these markings aren't regimental for the same reason they lack names. There would be listings. The answer to this was is just going to have to remain...uh hum...buried for a while. Anyway, it was a good segue for Halloween!

Pukka Bundook · 11th October 2017, 03:17 AM

Now M, If you went digging on Halloween, probably no-one would pay any attention. :-)

Jim McDougall · 26th October 2017, 04:14 AM

Cap'n Mark,
A perfect topic in these days before Halloween!

I recall studying these gravestone motif's years ago as I was researching many markings and motif on 17th and 18th century swords, mostly hangers and such. The appearance of cherubs and figures of heads (not necessarily death heads ) occur on various hilts, as well as 'the Green Man'. The famed 'Mortuary' swords supposed to represent the death head of Charles I during the Civil Wars in England were actually around before his death, so that 'lore' not really accurate.

The skull and crossbones as a symbol of death were around long before pirates, and were indeed sometimes placed in or around cemeteries .
With the Masonic connection it does not seem a widely present 'brotherhood' in Europe until the 18th century, but of course there were some connected groups before then (they hardly appeared suddenly).
The skull and crossbones represent the 'memento mori' (remember that you too shall die) often used in Masonic ritual and symbolism.

I have understood that from a maritime theme, in ships logs, a sailor deceased often had the skull and crossbones next to his name. As many 'pirates' had come from these naval ranks and become 'outlaw', they saw themselves as 'dead' to their former world, and now 'on account'.

As Mark has said, the deaths head (skull) and crossbones, the fabled 'Jolly Roger" was hardly the only pattern or configuration used on the flags flown by pirates. Also present were the hourglass, the scythe or skeletons with them, hearts and other unusual symbols.

Getting to the gravestones, the deaths head with wings symbolized the spirit flying to the next world or to that effect. These kinds of rather morbid symbols gave way to cherubs and angels and other lighter figures with Biblical associations of classical nature in just prior to mid 18th c. .
However, there were always those very 'old school' and so many headstones often still carried the old symbols.

As Mark noted, pirates were hardly required to stay close to the ocean, and often strayed far inland, and many of their vessels were smaller and shallow draft which could navigate many Eastern rivers.
The presumption of these skull and crossbones on headstones or in general as distinctly announcing the presence of a pirate is hardly unusual. It has become so firmly emblazoned in folklore it is an almost expected reaction.
Also, would not a pirate who had not committed a capital act, and who was executed, in effect have paid his debt to society, and not necessarily be denied redemption in the afterlife? hence the words, God have mercy on his soul.

As far as I have known, criminals, suicides and such were indeed often buried in unmarked graves, but in locations outside established cemetery parameters or even further out in so called 'Potters Fields'. There were other divisions in burial compatibility, such as the dead of opposing forces in battles etc. or as noted slaves or Native American groups not mingled with others in set cemeteries.

As far as unnamed headstones, it would seem unlikely that anyone of the mentioned groups would be placed among other locals in a cemetery, and unusual even to have a headstone at all. It is possible, as noted, that family of a pirate might retrieve the body and bury it not to be found out, but that seems tenuous at best.

I don't think plague victims would have unmarked stones, as many have their names and died of 'whatever malady' marked without abandon.
With the medical notions of the times I think that burial would suffice as far as keeping contagion in check, and as victims they had no transgression to place them otherwise.

8th October 2017, 02:26 PM	#1
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Any chance of these unknowns being plague victims or some such? Just a thought,...based on ignorance! I have the notion that murderers were buried in unmarked graves, and that those who committed suicide were buried on unconsecrated ground... Richard.

8th October 2017, 07:42 PM	#2
CutlassCollector Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Scotland Posts: 357	Spooky and interesting post Mark. Hey, I believe they are pirate graves for sure. Sailors home from the sea. CC

9th October 2017, 03:36 AM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,159	Thanks for the vote, CC! Of course, we are only guessing. NC was considered a maritime colony and has a lot of interesting and strange history, especially in the area mentioned (Salisbury,NC). Check out this other well known local mystery. I include it to just to show that there are 'stranger things under the sun'. http://www.atlasobscura.com/places/g...ter-stuart-ney Richard, plague was one of the theories presented in the search for information on these graves, but why punish the dead with no names? If it were a mass grave, why in the middle of a well preserved church cemetery? I guess they might have been travelers/strangers with no identification- You bring up a good point. Many murderers were indeed buried in unmarked graves, but usually unconsecrated ground so as not to 'pollute' the other graves. Unconsecrated ground also served as a punishment and a message, these villains were not in heaven...or so the belief goes. Of course, pirate burials were also on unconsecrated ground when maritime law was in place. The pirate was executed at the 'high water mark' when the tide was out, symbolizing that the criminals were punished by the laws of the sea and not the land courts. Their bodies were left for three ebb tides to wash over their bodies, further signifying that their execution was under naval regulations. They were then buried at the waterline or in some other unconsecrated area away from any churchyard. If we believe the rumors, the story says they had joined the community and hid their past. When discovered, they were punished accordingly by a court far from the ocean and given (at least) burial in the cemetery. Are there any other reasons these graves might not be labeled if not murderers or pirates? Could they be house slaves? Symbolic markers for some past event??

9th October 2017, 04:13 AM	#4
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Good points, M. Still mulling this over. Have you a spade? (!) If you Do, I can think of one method to narrow this down a bit. :-) (18" tall would mean likely not a pirate....) I can think of a good few English engravings, were we see deaths head or the grim reaper, but how this ties in I see not. Another loose thought, is how certain British regiments used the skull & crossbones, but can't see how this would tie in. To me, the plague and "unknown" still seems a good bet.

11th October 2017, 12:58 AM	#5
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,159	Oh wow, Richard! What a great idea about the spade!! Good points on regimental skull/bones for certain units, but I feel these markings aren't regimental for the same reason they lack names. There would be listings. The answer to this was is just going to have to remain...uh hum...buried for a while. Anyway, it was a good segue for Halloween!

11th October 2017, 03:17 AM	#6
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Now M, If you went digging on Halloween, probably no-one would pay any attention. :-)

26th October 2017, 04:14 AM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Cap'n Mark, A perfect topic in these days before Halloween! I recall studying these gravestone motif's years ago as I was researching many markings and motif on 17th and 18th century swords, mostly hangers and such. The appearance of cherubs and figures of heads (not necessarily death heads ) occur on various hilts, as well as 'the Green Man'. The famed 'Mortuary' swords supposed to represent the death head of Charles I during the Civil Wars in England were actually around before his death, so that 'lore' not really accurate. The skull and crossbones as a symbol of death were around long before pirates, and were indeed sometimes placed in or around cemeteries . With the Masonic connection it does not seem a widely present 'brotherhood' in Europe until the 18th century, but of course there were some connected groups before then (they hardly appeared suddenly). The skull and crossbones represent the 'memento mori' (remember that you too shall die) often used in Masonic ritual and symbolism. I have understood that from a maritime theme, in ships logs, a sailor deceased often had the skull and crossbones next to his name. As many 'pirates' had come from these naval ranks and become 'outlaw', they saw themselves as 'dead' to their former world, and now 'on account'. As Mark has said, the deaths head (skull) and crossbones, the fabled 'Jolly Roger" was hardly the only pattern or configuration used on the flags flown by pirates. Also present were the hourglass, the scythe or skeletons with them, hearts and other unusual symbols. Getting to the gravestones, the deaths head with wings symbolized the spirit flying to the next world or to that effect. These kinds of rather morbid symbols gave way to cherubs and angels and other lighter figures with Biblical associations of classical nature in just prior to mid 18th c. . However, there were always those very 'old school' and so many headstones often still carried the old symbols. As Mark noted, pirates were hardly required to stay close to the ocean, and often strayed far inland, and many of their vessels were smaller and shallow draft which could navigate many Eastern rivers. The presumption of these skull and crossbones on headstones or in general as distinctly announcing the presence of a pirate is hardly unusual. It has become so firmly emblazoned in folklore it is an almost expected reaction. Also, would not a pirate who had not committed a capital act, and who was executed, in effect have paid his debt to society, and not necessarily be denied redemption in the afterlife? hence the words, God have mercy on his soul. As far as I have known, criminals, suicides and such were indeed often buried in unmarked graves, but in locations outside established cemetery parameters or even further out in so called 'Potters Fields'. There were other divisions in burial compatibility, such as the dead of opposing forces in battles etc. or as noted slaves or Native American groups not mingled with others in set cemeteries. As far as unnamed headstones, it would seem unlikely that anyone of the mentioned groups would be placed among other locals in a cemetery, and unusual even to have a headstone at all. It is possible, as noted, that family of a pirate might retrieve the body and bury it not to be found out, but that seems tenuous at best. I don't think plague victims would have unmarked stones, as many have their names and died of 'whatever malady' marked without abandon. With the medical notions of the times I think that burial would suffice as far as keeping contagion in check, and as victims they had no transgression to place them otherwise.