barrels with tube fastening in 1470-80

[fernando]

Very nice

[Andi]

Two arquebuses, type dated to the 15th century and owned by the Schützengilde (marksmen gilde) of Woldegk, Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, Germany est. 1514. No 1 length of 858 mm caliber 22 mm, no 2 length 872 mm caliber 27 mm.

According to the literature both arquebuses were owned by the makrsmen guild since several hundred years and were still used as salute guns in the 1930s.

[Matchlock]

Hi Andi,

According to the clear formal and stylistic criteria that these two hackbut/haquebut barrels show (the one on top with octagonal rear section, long, slender and round mid section and long, octagonal muzzle section, the lower one round throughout but also divided in three stages), and backed up by the general Early-Renaissance stylistic three-stage feeling of their smith(s), they can be safely dated to ca. 1525-30.
Thus, they are no longer Gothic 15th c. specimen.

As they do not seem to have any pans attached to the touch-hole areas, the pans and covers are either missing (in which case traces of their former dovetailing must be seen) or are a highly unusual feature.


For more on such pieces and their dating criteria, please search my threads.


Best,
Michael

[Andi]

Hello Matchlock! Thanks for your info. Sorry that I posted them in the wrong thread - should we as the moderators or admins to move this replies to the suitable thread?

[Matchlock]

Hi Andi,

I photoshopped the picture of those two wrought iron haquebut barrels, which, in all probability, were made in Suhl/Thuringia, in about 1530.
However, they do not feature what Alexender called tube fastening, meaning rear sockets for a wooden tiller stock, as that way of stocking a barrel had been outdated by ca. 1500, at the latest.

Is this photo authored/copyrighted by you, or by the Schützengilde Woldegk?

Best,
Michael

[Andi]

Unfortunately I have no copyright on the image and no further infos on the pieces. I tried to contact the Schützengilde Woldegk and the mayor of the town Woldeg but received no reply till yet.

[Andi]

Good news regarding the both hackbuts of Woldegk.

I just received a phonecall of the curator of the local Mühlenmuseum in Woldegk who told me, that both barrel are still existing. One was requisitioned by Regional Museum in Neubrandenburg after WWII and kept during GDR-times. The other one was hidden by him until the 1990 and then passed to Regionalmusuem Neubrandenburgas a permanent loan. I can't wait to visit the Museum in Neubrandenburg.

[Spiridonov]

Huvudliggare
beskrivning/anteckningar: KM 43044. Handkanon, brons, med skaft av trä; medeltida. Ink. för avkastningen av "Skånebokens fond". Ink. på auktion å fabr. H. Swanbergs vapensaml. i Eslöv d. 25.9.44. Kat. n:r 59
m/l: M
förvärvsomständigheter: Köp 195.00
förvärvad från: Fabrikör H. Swanberg Eslöv
samtidiga förvärv: 43044-43047
Presentationstext
Ur utställningskatalogen: Funnen i Åhus hamn. De tidigaste eldvapnen var av denna typ utan lås och kallades ofta för rör. Krutet tändes med en lunta via hålet ovanpå. Kanoner av denna typ användes på fästningsvallar och krävde två personer- en som tände på och en som siktade. Vissa av dessa kanoner hade en hake att hålla mot en mur, för att hindra rekylen, och kallades då hakebössor.
Beskrivning
Skaft av trä, pipa av brons.
Historik
Med i utställningen "Makt över liv" vapenutställning 2007-.;
Handkanonen sågs av H. Swanberg ffg då han var 8 år, den låg då på en vind i Åhus, hos en person vid namn Delin, (utan egentligt yrke, dog i tuberkulos). Svanberg brukade på somrarna besöka en i Åhus bosatt moster. Det berättades att kanonen hittats i Åhus hamn av en dykare mitt för slottet vid en fartygsundersökning. Lokförare Johansson, brukade köra vexelloket på Åhus station, död för några år sedan (samband med honom?).
Inhämtat av H. Svanberg per telefon den 13/1 1947 ( Av Ragnar Blomquist)
Material
brons; trä
Längd
122,6 cm [med träskaft]; 50 cm [utan träskaft]
Kaliber
45 mm
Vikt
7435 gr [?]

[Paddy T.]

Originally Posted by Spiridonov

3 beautiful barrel from Heeresgeschichtliches museum in Wienna. They all made from bronze. Length of upper barrel is about 575 mm. Calibre is about 15 mm. I don't know exactly because i have put my scale through the glass.
Michael, Do You know parameters of he upper handgonne?
p/s it looks like barrels from Bulgaria.

Hi Spiridonov,

These guns have been published in Wilfried Tittmanns PhD thesis (Bochum 2015, unfortunatelly it´s only in German). Following Tittmann the guns from your post are in fact arabian/ottoman weapons, so Bulgaria wasn´t the badest idea.

[Patrick O.]

I found this between a catch of fish in the noth sea outside de river thames

[Philip]

Interesting! Is there a touchhole drilled into one side of the barrel, at the rear, that connects with the bore? Any markings? How is the smaller-diameter "stem" in back attached -- does it look like a separate piece screwed in or brazed on, or does this thing look like it was cast in one piece? Finally, what kind of alloy do you think the metal is -- bronze, brass, or just copper?

[Marcus den toom]

Originally Posted by Patrick O.

I found this between a catch of fish in the noth sea outside de river thames

Hi Patrick,

Interesting piece, could you send me some more HD pictures please?
What is the bore diameter? Looks like a small caliber.
The threaded haft is something i never have seen before either. Very cool piece.

[fernando]

Marcus, are you determining that this is an actual cannon barrel ?

[Marcus den toom]

Originally Posted by fernando

Marcus, are you determining that this is an actual cannon barrel ?

Could be Nando, though i wouldnt rule a candlestick out either.

Added:
Here is a picture of a 16th century candlestick. Take away the bottom and top..?

[Patrick O.]

Originally Posted by Marcus den toom

Hi Patrick,

Interesting piece, could you send me some more HD pictures please?
What is the bore diameter? Looks like a small caliber.
The threaded haft is something i never have seen before either. Very cool piece.

Hoi Marcus
The bore hole is 17 mm and on the end close to the thread ther is a small hole and inside as far i can see there are groves

[Patrick O.]

Originally Posted by Philip

Interesting! Is there a touchhole drilled into one side of the barrel, at the rear, that connects with the bore? Any markings? How is the smaller-diameter "stem" in back attached -- does it look like a separate piece screwed in or brazed on, or does this thing look like it was cast in one piece? Finally, what kind of alloy do you think the metal is -- bronze, brass, or just copper?

Hoi Philip
Thre is a small hole at the end the last part close to the thread
Is made from bronze i thinck
As far i can see it looks made in one piece
The last part above the thread is conical made

[Marcus den toom]

Originally Posted by Patrick O.

Hoi Marcus
The bore hole is 17 mm and on the end close to the thread ther is a small hole and inside as far i can see there are groves

Hi Patrick,

Could you show us a picture of the possible touchhole please?

[Patrick O.]

Originally Posted by Philip

Interesting! Is there a touchhole drilled into one side of the barrel, at the rear, that connects with the bore? Any markings? How is the smaller-diameter "stem" in back attached -- does it look like a separate piece screwed in or brazed on, or does this thing look like it was cast in one piece? Finally, what kind of alloy do you think the metal is -- bronze, brass, or just copper?

Hoi Philip
Thre is a small hole at the end the last part close to the thread
Is made from bronze i thinck
As far i can see it looks made in one piece
The last part above the thread is conical made

[Patrick O.]

Originally Posted by Marcus den toom

Hi Patrick,

Could you show us a picture of the possible touchhole please?

I hope you have something on the fotos

[fernando]

Looks like a touch hole indeed.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by Patrick O.

Hoi Marcus
The bore hole is 17 mm and on the end close to the thread ther is a small hole and inside as far i can see there are groves

Thank you, Patrick, for all the info you have given us so far. Now about those grooves -- how many and when you shine a light inside, do they look straight or spiraled? Can you tell approximately how deep each groove is?

When you stick a rod down the bore, does it go all the way to the touchhole? Or might there be something inside that plugs it up before then?