Petra

shayde78 · 6th October 2017, 02:43 PM

I love seeing this particular blade being worn locally as part of an established kit.

A couple pics of an example I own. Modest, but a better blade than I've seen on many.

mariusgmioc · 6th October 2017, 05:37 PM

Good example!

Do you know what is written on the blade?

shayde78 · 6th October 2017, 06:57 PM

I'd love to find out what the inscription says. I have seen examples where a date is included in the cartouche (is it a cartouche?), so perhaps it contains that. I'd love if someone could translate.

Per member Motan, who provided comments in another thread about this piece: "There is no evidence it was made for anything but the local market and members of the Arab Legion carried very similar ones at the time. The coin impression is of king Ghazi of Iraq (see link http://www.chiefacoins.com/Database...ies/Ghazi_I.htm)."

motan · 8th October 2017, 11:19 AM

Hello Oriental Arms,
Great picture. Good to see that the tradition is still alive. The whole attire has not changed much from around WWII.
The quality of Jordanian shibriyas is indeed not great, some rare exceptions aside. I think that it has to do with the lack of serious dagger-making tradition and the little money potential costumers could pay. The construction with thin metal foil over soft material like pine wood, held together by soft soldering of tin or lead is prone to damage. As cheap assesories, they were also not particularly well maintained.
The whole story of the rise of shibriya making and its peak in the 1940's and 50's is difficult for me to understand and I will not speculate here.
Shayde78, the writing on the your blade has no date and I think it is the makers mark because with my limited Arabic I can identify the word A'mal = the work of..=made by. I could ask someone to translate, but I am sure A.alnakkas can do it too. As I said before, your shibriya can be dated quite securly to the 1940's.

Oriental-Arms · 10th October 2017, 07:15 PM

There are very good exemplars on the market: Good blade, horn grip, silver mounts and silver scabbard with nice niello decoration. 1960-1970. Collected in Israel.

mariusgmioc · 12th October 2017, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriental-Arms

There are very good exemplars on the market: Good blade, horn grip, silver mounts and silver scabbard with nice niello decoration. 1960-1970. Collected in Israel.

I wish I could find something of this quality in Jordan!

Thank you for sharing!

A.alnakkas · 12th October 2017, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriental-Arms

There are very good exemplars on the market: Good blade, horn grip, silver mounts and silver scabbard with nice niello decoration. 1960-1970. Collected in Israel.

Hey Artzi, when did you collect this shibriya? The date you mention between 1960 to 70 conflicts with the information I found. Supposedly these shibriyas are made in the 90's by an Iraqi silver smith who moved to Jordan after the first gulf war. His name is Abdulrazaaq. This silversmith moved to Australia in the early 2000's and I did not manage to track him down.

I have one identical to the one you have shown. Will try to show along with the blade of the previous one.

A.alnakkas · 12th October 2017, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shayde78

I love seeing this particular blade being worn locally as part of an established kit.

A couple pics of an example I own. Modest, but a better blade than I've seen on many.

Work of Houshan. A workshop that still produces shibriyas.

motan · 12th October 2017, 10:48 PM

Thanks for translating Lotfy.
I do not know the specific case of Abdulrazaaq, but this type of niello work is well known from Iraq and it has been used on Kurdish and Marsh Arab types of daggers. Funny, because the real origin of this type of niello work is Tbilisi Georgia and kindjals made with similar decoration and mounting in late 19th century. Other shibriyas with niello are different and in less "foreign" style, like the one in Mariusgmioc pic (middle, I also have a similar one)
Lotfy and Artzi, you have both shown examples of shibriya of good+ quality, but these consist less than 5% of the production and are not in a representative style, like those of Houshan, which are the most dominant and typical type.

A.alnakkas · 13th October 2017, 11:56 AM

As requested, image of the blade and as mentioned, images of niello shibriyas with one similar to Artzi's.

6th October 2017, 02:43 PM	#1
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 445	I love seeing this particular blade being worn locally as part of an established kit. A couple pics of an example I own. Modest, but a better blade than I've seen on many. Attached Images

10th October 2017, 07:15 PM	#5
Oriental-Arms Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Haifa, Israel Posts: 183	Very Good Shybriya There are very good exemplars on the market: Good blade, horn grip, silver mounts and silver scabbard with nice niello decoration. 1960-1970. Collected in Israel. Attached Images

13th October 2017, 11:56 AM	#10
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	As requested, image of the blade and as mentioned, images of niello shibriyas with one similar to Artzi's. Attached Images

6th October 2017, 05:37 PM	#2
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,911	Good example! Do you know what is written on the blade?

6th October 2017, 06:57 PM	#3
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 445	I'd love to find out what the inscription says. I have seen examples where a date is included in the cartouche (is it a cartouche?), so perhaps it contains that. I'd love if someone could translate. Per member Motan, who provided comments in another thread about this piece: "There is no evidence it was made for anything but the local market and members of the Arab Legion carried very similar ones at the time. The coin impression is of king Ghazi of Iraq (see link http://www.chiefacoins.com/Database...ies/Ghazi_I.htm)."

8th October 2017, 11:19 AM	#4
motan Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Jerusalem Posts: 274	Hello Oriental Arms, Great picture. Good to see that the tradition is still alive. The whole attire has not changed much from around WWII. The quality of Jordanian shibriyas is indeed not great, some rare exceptions aside. I think that it has to do with the lack of serious dagger-making tradition and the little money potential costumers could pay. The construction with thin metal foil over soft material like pine wood, held together by soft soldering of tin or lead is prone to damage. As cheap assesories, they were also not particularly well maintained. The whole story of the rise of shibriya making and its peak in the 1940's and 50's is difficult for me to understand and I will not speculate here. Shayde78, the writing on the your blade has no date and I think it is the makers mark because with my limited Arabic I can identify the word A'mal = the work of..=made by. I could ask someone to translate, but I am sure A.alnakkas can do it too. As I said before, your shibriya can be dated quite securly to the 1940's.

12th October 2017, 10:48 PM	#9
motan Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Jerusalem Posts: 274	Thanks for translating Lotfy. I do not know the specific case of Abdulrazaaq, but this type of niello work is well known from Iraq and it has been used on Kurdish and Marsh Arab types of daggers. Funny, because the real origin of this type of niello work is Tbilisi Georgia and kindjals made with similar decoration and mounting in late 19th century. Other shibriyas with niello are different and in less "foreign" style, like the one in Mariusgmioc pic (middle, I also have a similar one) Lotfy and Artzi, you have both shown examples of shibriya of good+ quality, but these consist less than 5% of the production and are not in a representative style, like those of Houshan, which are the most dominant and typical type.