The Sinhalese Kastane: Its Development, Decoration and Symbolism

[David]

Originally Posted by fernando

Several Congolese swords are found with such crosses in their quillon discs, David. I hardly see these perforations as symbols originated (different than adopted) by Kongo Africans. Amazingly a scholar (Wanynn 1961,65) even names them as Greek crosses.
The order of Christus, for one, was also present in the Kongo kingdom and had swords in their possession as a sign of status (Schellings 1949, 12).
The Kongo kingdom was defined by the mutation process where European elements were incorporated in domestic culture.
Portuguese arrived in Congo in 1482 and soon converted the local monarchs to Christianty. The first monarch to be baptized was Nzinga-a-Nkuwu, with Christian name João I in 1491. The process went smoothly because the Christian elements called for domestic ideas on their own ideology. Afonso I (1509-1540), the secong king converted to christianty, had seen this well, and confirmed his power for the Europeans and for the domestic population by the setting up with catholicism. The European elite symbol, the sword, was taken over. Together with the crucifix, these two European elements have certainly incorporated most of the habits of the Bakongo (Wannyn 1961, 67).
Deceased Kongo monarchs were found buried with these swords in a Christian attitude.
The symbolism behind the sword for the Bakongo is reduced to the domestic ideas concerning iron and their own theology which was reflected in the form of the sword. Also the rituals which were carried out with the swords reflected this symbolism; in any case the swords came initially from Europe. At the time of the Portugese, European swords were used. Later these became scarcer and domestic copies started being made.
The last soba to have a portuguese Christian name was Soba Nkanga-a-Lukeni, Garcia II (1641-1661). This adds to two centuries of culture blending.

Fernando, there is certainly no doubt that Christianity made inroads on the African continent early on in the 15th century and that various African cultures did indeed accept it and work Christian iconography into their cultural artifacts. However, i was addressing Ibrahiim's assertions in my post, specifically references to "Voodoo geometry" and his link in his post #159 to images of the Haitian Vodoun vévé for Papa Legba, the Lwa of the crossroads. Vodun is more specific to the Dahomey Kingdom than the Konga Kingdom. While i remarked that the equilateral cross has many pre-Christian occurrences all over the world and is intact a symbol of the the crossroads in parts of African as well as the diaspora, vévé themselves, the practice of drawing these Lwa symbols on the ground with flour for ritual purpose is one that developed in Haiti and other diaspora countries, not Mother Africa herself, so the Legba crossroads symbol Ibrahiim posted has little bearing on this topic. However, in Africa this equilateral cross symbol was in use in pre-Christian days. Once Christianized i am sure that it took on a different meaning an purpose, but wherever one religion supplants another there is often some hold over to previous belief systems and meanings can be a bit fuzzy to interpret. There are also numerous syncretic sects throughout Africa that combine Christianity with traditional African religions. But when i wrote it is "most logical to assume that the equilateral cross when found on a solely African weapon most probably does not have a Christian affiliation" i was referring to weapons from cultures that were purely African and had not fully converted to Christian ways. Either way i believe it is still difficult to tell the exact intent and purpose of the equilateral cross when it appears on these swords.

[fernando]

Good enough, David .

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I have to say ...or should I say point out? That both these complex answers on the subject of Crosses are on completely the wrong thread. My advice would be that the correct thread is ~

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=23002

~ where Crosses are being aired relevant to West African swords.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

An interesting gift from Russia to Sri Lanka was made in the form of a previously lost sword now returned....and gifted to the National Museum.

[David]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

I have to say ...or should I say point out? That both these complex answers on the subject of Crosses are on completely the wrong thread. My advice would be that the correct thread is ~

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=23002

~ where Crosses are being aired relevant to West African swords.

LOL! Well, I have to say...it was you Ibrahiim, who raised the topic when you revived this old thread in your post #159. You placed the link to that thread and wrote:
I further cast doubt upon the claim that this is a Christian cross. Again the reference above refers. It is more likely to be Voodoo inspired.
You further press this question in post #161:
I would be pleased to see a proof regarding the Christian Cross in the blade as so far as is understood this is a Voodoo geometry although any light you can throw on it other than the author writing that this is a Christian Cross related to those on Pharaohic Tombs?
So if you truly think our responses are on the wrong thread you might want to ask yourself why you continue to encourage the discussion here.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by David

LOL! Well, I have to say...it was you Ibrahiim, who raised the topic when you revived this old thread in your post #159. You placed the link to that thread and wrote:
I further cast doubt upon the claim that this is a Christian cross. Again the reference above refers. It is more likely to be Voodoo inspired.
You further press this question in post #161:
I would be pleased to see a proof regarding the Christian Cross in the blade as so far as is understood this is a Voodoo geometry although any light you can throw on it other than the author writing that this is a Christian Cross related to those on Pharaohic Tombs?
So if you truly think our responses are on the wrong thread you might want to ask yourself why you continue to encourage the discussion here.

David Thank you for posting your detailed work on the cross situation albeit on the wrong thread...which I hope can be remedied smartly.

Although it is plain to see that I was originally writing in context not out of it. In fact it was quite relevant as I was looking back with the thought of damage control in mind and to correct anything I felt needed attention... The West African Machette is clearly in that category since in view of post at #80. placed on this thread. it is a clearly out of sync. picture with spurious (at best) detail about West African/Portuguese Sinhalese influence unless you agree with the proposition that is?

But it is good that at least you now recognize that the Cross discussion belongs on another thread as it is relevant to West African detail...On the other thread in fact you will see clearly that I concur with the idea of the Portuguese influence and place my own research behind that premise... although I doubt much of the constructed work by others that the influence is Pharoaic or because it came down the trans Saharan highway..

SEE CORRECT thread at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=23002.

I do not encourage discussion here on this subject ...it is the wrong thread unless you are deliberate in placing it / chasing it here...? The threads are a mess because of this misplacement. Look at it from a logical viewpoint of library content...?

Whilst there is excellent detail on the said posts they are woefully misplaced. Can a consensus not be arrived at to sort this raveled mix up out?

[David]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Rather than hack the player how about focussing on the message... Although it is plain to see that I was originally writing in context not out of it. In fact it was quite relevant in view of post at #80. placed on this thread. a clearly out of sinc. picture with spurious (at bast) detail about West African/Portuguese Sinhalese influence unless you agree with the proposition that is?

But it is good that at least you now recognize that the Cross discussion belongs on another thread as it is relevant to West African detail...

SEE CORRECT thread at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=23002.

I do not encourage discussion here on this subject ...it is the wrong thread unless you are deliberate in placing it / chasing it here...? The threads are a mess because of this misplacement. Look at it from a logical viewpoint of library content...

Whilst there is excellent detail on the said posts they are woefully misplaced. Can a consensus not be arrived at to sort this raveled mix up out?

Ibrahiim, everything i have written here is in direct response to information YOU have brought up within the context of THIS thread. I have no interest whatsoever in continuing this little back and forth we are currently engaged in nor any interest in transferring my comments to another thread where you believe it would be more appropriately placed. This "raveled mix-up" is entirely yours my friend. You can accept it and continue or simply move along. Thanks for playing.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by David

Ibrahiim, everything i have written here is in direct response to information YOU have brought up within the context of THIS thread. I have no interest whatsoever in continuing this little back and forth we are currently engaged in nor any interest in transferring my comments to another thread where you believe it would be more appropriately placed. This "raveled mix-up" is entirely yours my friend. You can accept it and continue or simply move along. Thanks for playing.

Sir, You reverse away from discussion but delight in hacking the player not the ball...? You are in a spotlight here and refuse to even take the field. It is a shame. Your lack of interest is noted. I will indeed take this on myself.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

THE KASTANE . Its Architecture.

I present here an interesting write up on a sold item see http://www.icollector.com/A-FINE-PRE...WORD_i15525534 where it states~

Quote"An exceptional example of classic form, wrought entirely of silver. The hilt elaborately chiseled with scrollwork, the pommel a fully-modeled makara head with ruby eyes, the guard with five further monsterheads, and the face of a fanged demon on the knucklebow. The lightly-curved, single-edged blade with blunt ricasso. In its finely embellished silver scabbard decorated en suite with the hilt, the terminal likewise formed as a monster head, and inscribed, MUDALIYAR B.P. AMERASINGHE. With its handwrought silver chain baldric terminating in a large filigreed bead. Second half of the 19th century.The term 'mudaliyar' is a Tamil honorific, generally applied to a high-ranking member of the military or government. Overall length 60 cm. Condition I." Unquote.

The proviso here being that the use of words by auctioneers and museums may vary considerably in describing the Deities and that a sympathetic viewpoint has already been adopted here on thread. Interesting is the silver chain baldric although something not noted by the auctioneers is The Humanoid Face, outward facing, sometimes refered to as The Humanoid Crocodile on the Knuckleguard which is another Deity not always present but every bit as fascinating. I think this is the Kirtimukha. With this in mind readers may note the extraordinary descriptive given at #49 to which I would add; Lions Head form... in many examples.

Unusually the so called Quilon structures(Vajra) are wide in this late model as opposed to earlier form which are close together. In this case has the European style of Quilon been adopted? Personally and since this was not a fighting weapon (court and badge of office only) I do not think so but it is noted in the margin for others to comment.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.