Need Help to Identify Sepuh (Old) / Kamardikan Java Keris

[Johan van Zyl]

Alan, thank you for your kind initial reply to my query. You say the core is clearly visible. That, of course, is when you know what you are looking at, and you know what to look for. I am struggling to see the core, and the reason is that I don't know what to look for.

What is a core? In my limited knowledge, a core is a hard steel sheet inserted between the laminated pieces at a certain stage of the forging process. I understand by that, that the core metal is virtually covered (hidden from sight) by the pamor. Inspecting post #3, in which Bejo gave us good pics, I see with my untrained eye a refurbished blade (appearing so new as to have been made yesterday) with a laminated pattern that looks like islands of silver-colored metal lying in a sea of black metal. Of course, we have here an iron-pamor combination. But what does the pamor consist of? It would be "dark" iron and either nickel or white (phosphorus-rich) iron. It gives a sharp contrast. But in Bejo's blade I see ONLY two colors: very light and very dark. Where does the core steel lie? And what is the color of the core steel? Surely it should run all along the edge.

Alan, you say the core is the narrow black border between the blade edge and the start of the pamor. Well, then ALL the very dark metal I see = core material! Can that be? I thought the steel core was nearly fully imbedded between the pamor layers, and that only a very narrow strip can be seen at the very edge. This I fail to see in Bejo's pics. So it is clear from the above I am as confused as ever!

I'm making many statements in the above as if they are facts. However, there is a purpose to that. If I do not report what I think I see, no-one can help me see where my reasoning is faulty. Please could someone put me on the right track? Thank you!

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Johan van Zyl

Please could someone put me on the right track? Thank you!

Hello Johan, at this picture you can see clearly the core. Hope this helps.

Regards,
Detlef

[A. G. Maisey]

Johan, a keris blade is made by forge welding a piece of steel between two pieces of pamor material that has been made by forge welding iron and a contrasting material.

If the forging is well made and then well carved, the edge of the steel core projects beyond the pamor material around all the edges of the blade.

The diagram that Detlef has drawn shows the steel core where it has emerged from the pamor and now forms the edge of the blade.

The blade is in fact a laminated sandwich, pamor on the faces of the blade, steel core running through the centre of the blade and forming the cutting edges.

[Johan van Zyl]

Yes, Sajen, thank you for indicating it, and this is what I expect to see, and it is clear on the blade that Gustav has presented. And it is a nice illustration of what Alan is describing. But I have been referring to Bejo's blade all along, specifically the excellent 3rd picture from the top on Bejo's post #3. I'm looking for that same edge showing the steel, but I do not find it at all.

[Sajen]

Hello Johan,
use the picture from the uncleaned blade and make it bigger on your screen and you will see.

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Hello Johan,
use the picture from the uncleaned blade and make it bigger on your screen and you will see. Post #4.

Regards,
Detlef

sorry, double post, that happens when you use a mobile phone.

[A. G. Maisey]

Johan, if you look at the deep fullers in the blade base, you will also see the core, in cutting the fullers (kruwingan) the maker has cut through the pamor material and exposed the core.

In post#3, third image down, on the left hand side of the blade you will see a very faint lighter line. This can indicate one of two things, the first is that the blade edge was forged down prior to the cold work being done, the second is that we can see a weld joint in the core. Impossible to know which from a photo, this would need examination under magnification.

All of the wider black areas that we can see on the blade are most probably blade core. There is a very, very faint possibility that the inside layer of iron in the pamor was left thicker than the outside layers, and what we can see is not blade core, but rather an attempt to economise on work time and fuel, but this is unlikely.

Think of a pamor blade as a ham on rye sandwich, with the ham sticking out from the bread; cut the bread too thin, and you'll likely see bits of the ham trough the bread.

There is a method of blade construction that was sometimes used in very old blades, Mataram and before, where steel core construction is not used. It is an older method economises on steel by using an overlapping double V construction, similar to that used in Viking swords, where a steel edge is welded into the solid blade core.

[Johan van Zyl]

Alan, I see the faint lighter line you describe. I had in my imagination expected the core strip to be more apparant. Thank you & Sajen for the trouble to point these out.