Difficulty’s in working with meteorite as a pamor material

[nechesh]

Thanks Jim, and thanks Rick for passing that on. A very informative post, but it is my suspicion that Pusaka is more interested in how difficult the process would be today than in the past. I could be wrong, but from past postings i got the impression that he was looking for someone to forge a new keris with meteoric pamor for himself. Still, your post shows how difficult (though certainly do-able) the process is.
I would disagree with Jim on one passage:

Now if you have a bone-fide "pre western world" contact Keris, and it shows a high contrast pamor, I would venture to say that it is probably extraterrestrial material. Simply due to the fact that Ni is present in such "large amounts."

It seems probable that much of the nickelous pamor material used was pamor luwu from Sulawesi. Though Groneman's studies show Ni content of that material at only 0.4%, Bronson, in his paper "Terrestial and meteoritic nickel in the Indonesian Kris" shows that there are deposits of ore on that island with at least 2.2% nickel content. I could be mistaken, but i believe that this level of Ni content would be sufficient to produce fairly high contrast patterns in pamor. Contrasting pamor, though not always nickelous in nature, where reported as early as 1433 in the descriptions of the knives carried by all Javanese men written by the Ma Haun. It is doubtful, IMO, that these early pamors were the product of meteoric Ni.

[Pusaka]

Thanks for all the info guys

I’m guessing that modern Indonesian keris makers would get their meteorites from ebay like anyone else so nickel content and therefore pamor contrast would vary greatly depending what meteorite you selected. I am more interested in the difficulty’s a modern keris maker would face. Once the pamor is made is it more difficult to control then pure nickel, because that is what I was told.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by Pusaka

Thanks for all the info guys

I’m guessing that modern Indonesian keris makers would get their meteorites from ebay like anyone else so nickel content and therefore pamor contrast would vary greatly depending what meteorite you selected. I am more interested in the difficulty’s a modern keris maker would face. Once the pamor is made is it more difficult to control then pure nickel, because that is what I was told.

Pusaka , please ........
Do you really think these guys are actually buying meteorite on ebay to make keris with ?

Especially when the only way you could tell if it was real would be through destructive testing !?!

Please pardon my skepticism .

[Jeff Pringle]

Believe it or not, Ebay is one of the main meteorite market places nowadays, the place to go in between mineral shows or if you don't have a dealer lined up. And yes, there are a few fake meteorites up for sale on any given day, but most of the stuff is real, and the meteorite dealers discuss the fakes on their discussion lists. The hard part of getting meteorites on ebay is knowing when you got a deal, and of course not getting sniped when you do get a deal. But the market for meteorites is such that some irons are generally cheap, some amazingly expensive, so with a little caution you can pick up forgeable extra-terrestrial iron for pennies a gram - which in itself is amazing.
Better to get a good relationship with a dealer, if you can find one who will give you wholesale prices, but ebay will do in a pinch.

Once the pamor is made is it more difficult to control then pure nickel, because that is what I was told.

Pure Nickel is more predictable, but also more prone to shearing when you are manipulating the metal and more of a pain (difficult to get a flawless weld) in secondary welding operations, or at least that's been my experience. A little more control in patterning, but a little more annoying too

[Pusaka]

Originally Posted by Rick

Pusaka , please ........
Do you really think these guys are actually buying meteorite on ebay to make keris with ?

Especially when the only way you could tell if it was real would be through destructive testing !?!

Please pardon my skepticism .

O thanks for your skepticism, I find it most refreshing

[Rick]

Originally Posted by Pusaka

O thanks for your skepticism, I find it most refreshing

Unfortunately I cannot say the same for your naivete .

You have a long road of learning (about keris culture and Indonesia) ahead of you young man ; and unless you can be present for the forging of your 'meteorite' keris and actually see the meteorite incorporated into the wilah I fear very much that you will be duped .

[Pusaka]

My comment was more to the manner in which you said it then what you said, Where I come from this >>> ( )is an insult so why use it? Is there any need to be rude??

[BluErf]

Ok, its time to take a deep breath, everyone...