My first dharb for comment

Valjhun · 12th March 2006, 11:48 AM

Certainly not 5 years old.

There are no engravings on the blade. I think that it was extensively cleaned by the previous owner

. There is still some rust on the blade near the hilt.

I'm attaching better photos.

Andrew · 12th March 2006, 03:01 PM

Ouch. That sure has seen too much grinding/sanding.

Personally, since the blade has been abused so, I would try to polish it out.

What makes you think the blade has been folded?

The blade is typically Thai in profile and, perhaps, our new members Titus and PUFF can confirm this. The handle is a bit unusual in my experience, and I like it. Interesting sword, congratulations.

RSWORD · 12th March 2006, 04:51 PM

While the blade profile may suggest a Thai origin, might I offer the handle shape and materials used might suggest a Vietnamese origin. The way the handle tapers at the end of the grip makes me envision an ivory tusk that may have been there at one time that you sometimes see in Vietnamese Sabers. Also, the use of thick, heavy rattan is a feature found on some Vietnamese two-handers. Philip, I am sure, could add to the features of Vietnamese saber handles. This might be why the handle shape and materials are not seeming common to Thai swords.

Andrew · 12th March 2006, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSWORD

While the blade profile may suggest a Thai origin, might I offer the handle shape and materials used might suggest a Vietnamese origin. The way the handle tapers at the end of the grip makes me envision an ivory tusk that may have been there at one time that you sometimes see in Vietnamese Sabers. Also, the use of thick, heavy rattan is a feature found on some Vietnamese two-handers. Philip, I am sure, could add to the features of Vietnamese saber handles. This might be why the handle shape and materials are not seeming common to Thai swords.

I couldn't put my finger on it, but that's it, Rick! It reminds me of the "Kochin" saber handles Philip spoke about last year at Timonium.

Valjhun · 12th March 2006, 06:27 PM

Thank you all for the wonderfull debate

Andrew, I meant forged not folded, sorry. It is obviously hand made and there are some forging flaws to and it is not machine made blade nor it was cut out from a piece of steel.

How do I polish the blade?

PUFF · 13th March 2006, 07:51 AM

The blade and handle seems a bit strange too me. The round plate with pins in front of ferrule 's uncommon for Dahb. The rattan 's a little thicker than ordinary Darb. And I guessed that the handle might be reconstructed/restored by local maker. Pictures are not very clear but the little black wrapping just before and after rattan grip looks like rattan rings. Rings are Separated hand-made and put on the handle. Then black resinous glue was applied. This means the handle might be made 40+ years ago.

Like horn and tusk, hardwood 's not material for battle sword. The handle could be made for household usage.

May I have another picture for back part of the blade. One picture shows flat back profile with smoothen edges. Is s it tapered or just same thickness up to 3/4 of the blade? Although, the blade seems to be harden and need some polishing. The scratchs suggested that the steel 's fairly hard. I guessed that the material is either old leaf spring or medium carbon steel. IMHO, the blade was made in the post WWII era in Lampang (northern Thailand). It 's also possible that the blade was forged by a smith from another region (look carefully for a possible stamp on the blade) in the mid 20th cent. And the handle might be reconstructed by another maker.

Could you please post colse-up of black wrapping and more picture of back profile of the blade.

Ian · 13th March 2006, 05:18 PM

I've been slow to get to this one because the hilt is a little strange.

Going back to my own examples of N. Thai/Lao dharb, I found a similar example where the rattan had been wrapped (rather than plaited in rings) around the hilt. So I think this is an example of N. Thai or nearby Lao work.

The assembly of the hilt and blade of the sword above is probably not very old. The materials in the handle look recent. The blade may be older. The small metal plate, referred to already, attached by pins to the base of the hilt next to the blade is a feature seen on several recently made Thai dharb, and even on some higher grade, old examples. Not all that unusual. The blade is clearly in the style of recently made Thai dharb, although there are older examples (early 20th C and maybe late 19th C) with a similar blade profile.

I don't think this sword is a Cochin saber. The protruding piece of wood at the end of the hilt does resemble that style, but similar features can be found on Thai and Burmese examples also, especially when a terminal ferrule has been lost.

Attached below is a picture of two swords. The top one is Lao and the bottom one, which has a rattan wrap similar to the sword that started this discussion, is from Chiang Mai in northern Thailand. Incidentally, both of these swords have small metal plates at the end of the hilt adjacent to the blade.

Larger pictures of th Chiang Mai dharb and its hilt are shown. The bare wooden area of the hilt shows where the rattan has broken off and how the binding was attached with black pitch or a similar resin.

Ian.

Valjhun · 13th March 2006, 05:37 PM

Thanksfor the info Puff, here are the photos.

Everything on that sword is verry quality made. The black wrapping is rope binding. The blade is quite thick -6mm. The blade is 56 cm long. Wideness: 4 cm at the widest point near the tip and 3 cm at the hilt. Overall lenght is 85 cm. I like thatone verry much and the handle is one of the more attractive I've seen on a non silver mounted dha, I'm not an expert thou.

From my point of view it is a great fighting weapon (I've chosen it in the home defence post

) Great balance and nice cutter. It feels verry good managing it. What do you mean by household use?

12th March 2006, 11:48 AM	#1
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	Certainly not 5 years old. There are no engravings on the blade. I think that it was extensively cleaned by the previous owner . There is still some rust on the blade near the hilt. I'm attaching better photos. Attached Images

13th March 2006, 05:18 PM	#7
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,395	N. Thai perhaps I've been slow to get to this one because the hilt is a little strange. Going back to my own examples of N. Thai/Lao dharb, I found a similar example where the rattan had been wrapped (rather than plaited in rings) around the hilt. So I think this is an example of N. Thai or nearby Lao work. The assembly of the hilt and blade of the sword above is probably not very old. The materials in the handle look recent. The blade may be older. The small metal plate, referred to already, attached by pins to the base of the hilt next to the blade is a feature seen on several recently made Thai dharb, and even on some higher grade, old examples. Not all that unusual. The blade is clearly in the style of recently made Thai dharb, although there are older examples (early 20th C and maybe late 19th C) with a similar blade profile. I don't think this sword is a Cochin saber. The protruding piece of wood at the end of the hilt does resemble that style, but similar features can be found on Thai and Burmese examples also, especially when a terminal ferrule has been lost. Attached below is a picture of two swords. The top one is Lao and the bottom one, which has a rattan wrap similar to the sword that started this discussion, is from Chiang Mai in northern Thailand. Incidentally, both of these swords have small metal plates at the end of the hilt adjacent to the blade. Larger pictures of th Chiang Mai dharb and its hilt are shown. The bare wooden area of the hilt shows where the rattan has broken off and how the binding was attached with black pitch or a similar resin. Ian. Attached Images Last edited by Ian; 13th March 2006 at 05:42 PM. Reason: Added pictures

13th March 2006, 05:37 PM	#8
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	Thanksfor the info Puff, here are the photos. Everything on that sword is verry quality made. The black wrapping is rope binding. The blade is quite thick -6mm. The blade is 56 cm long. Wideness: 4 cm at the widest point near the tip and 3 cm at the hilt. Overall lenght is 85 cm. I like thatone verry much and the handle is one of the more attractive I've seen on a non silver mounted dha, I'm not an expert thou. From my point of view it is a great fighting weapon (I've chosen it in the home defence post ) Great balance and nice cutter. It feels verry good managing it. What do you mean by household use? Attached Images

12th March 2006, 03:01 PM	#2
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Ouch. That sure has seen too much grinding/sanding. Personally, since the blade has been abused so, I would try to polish it out. What makes you think the blade has been folded? The blade is typically Thai in profile and, perhaps, our new members Titus and PUFF can confirm this. The handle is a bit unusual in my experience, and I like it. Interesting sword, congratulations.

12th March 2006, 04:51 PM	#3
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,087	While the blade profile may suggest a Thai origin, might I offer the handle shape and materials used might suggest a Vietnamese origin. The way the handle tapers at the end of the grip makes me envision an ivory tusk that may have been there at one time that you sometimes see in Vietnamese Sabers. Also, the use of thick, heavy rattan is a feature found on some Vietnamese two-handers. Philip, I am sure, could add to the features of Vietnamese saber handles. This might be why the handle shape and materials are not seeming common to Thai swords.

12th March 2006, 06:27 PM	#5
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	Thank you all for the wonderfull debate Andrew, I meant forged not folded, sorry. It is obviously hand made and there are some forging flaws to and it is not machine made blade nor it was cut out from a piece of steel. How do I polish the blade?

13th March 2006, 07:51 AM	#6
PUFF Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 30 miles north of Bangkok, 20 miles south of Ayuthaya, Thailand Posts: 224	The blade and handle seems a bit strange too me. The round plate with pins in front of ferrule 's uncommon for Dahb. The rattan 's a little thicker than ordinary Darb. And I guessed that the handle might be reconstructed/restored by local maker. Pictures are not very clear but the little black wrapping just before and after rattan grip looks like rattan rings. Rings are Separated hand-made and put on the handle. Then black resinous glue was applied. This means the handle might be made 40+ years ago. Like horn and tusk, hardwood 's not material for battle sword. The handle could be made for household usage. May I have another picture for back part of the blade. One picture shows flat back profile with smoothen edges. Is s it tapered or just same thickness up to 3/4 of the blade? Although, the blade seems to be harden and need some polishing. The scratchs suggested that the steel 's fairly hard. I guessed that the material is either old leaf spring or medium carbon steel. IMHO, the blade was made in the post WWII era in Lampang (northern Thailand). It 's also possible that the blade was forged by a smith from another region (look carefully for a possible stamp on the blade) in the mid 20th cent. And the handle might be reconstructed by another maker. Could you please post colse-up of black wrapping and more picture of back profile of the blade.