The Omani Battle Sword. Sayf Yamaani.

Gonzalo G · 28th July 2017, 03:59 AM

Salam aleikum, Ibrahiim.
I believe that your sword and the jineta have a common ancestry in the "classic" muslim sword.

Regards

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 28th July 2017, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gonzalo G

Salam aleikum, Ibrahiim.
I believe that your sword and the jineta have a common ancestry in the "classic" muslim sword.

Regards

Salaams Gonzalo G ~ Whilst no one would disagree that there are subtle similarities and shades of partial mirroring there is no direct technical form or construction inherent in both that could be construed as deliberate technical transfer... so what are the similarities? ... remembering that we have virtually no examples of the original Jinetta to compare with. So we are comparing the Sayf Yamaani with the highly ornate precious metal and decidedly aristocratic VIP version whilst trying to imagine what a Jinetta battle sword should look like... Not easy. In addition no one has a clue as to where the Berber version came from.

Where I do agree that the Jinetta had down turned quillons it has to be said that so did a lot of weapons in that culture broadly. It can be said that both swords would have been worn on a Baldric over the shoulder. This can be said about all Islamic swords and going back to Swords of The Prophet where it is known that this was the preferred way it was worn....and it is how the Sayf Yamaani was carried and I believe how the Jinetta was carried and how that also seems to have developed with a saddle baldric in addition.

Nevertheless I do generally agree that similarities are present in both these concepts and I look forward to seeing more evidence in that regard..and I support the general idea.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 28th July 2017, 07:51 AM

Back to basics. What are the implications in sword hilt design on the Sayf Yamaani?

1. Dealing with the Quilons. My view is that these follow the basic concept of a moon shape simply constructed. Many pieces of Omani silver jewelery follow the same idea from necklaces to ear rings, half bangles, and danglers.. Silver Jewelery invokes the idea of The Moon. Gold is for the Sun. I place below the full hilt of the Sayf Yamaani and next to it a jade hilt from another region .. showing the moon phase....and dragon head finials. In addition a few examples of moon shaped Omani Silver to compare.

2. The hand grip. This grip is not tubular but octagonal and well worn. It illustrates the Minaret form.

3. The Pommel looks like the top part of the Minaret from which emanates the call to prayer. It is multi sided often 6 or 8 sides...and sometimes decorated in simple silver script.

The emphasis is on simplicity of Islamic design in keeping with Ibaathi principles. Staunch without over decoration but simple and pious. This provides part of the final bridge between 1000 AD and almost 4 centuries before that when I posit the Sayf Yamaani originally appeared in the same configuration... and remained the same until the 19th C.

For this reason I suggest the sword is Iconic with the Ibaathi concept and was accepted in about 650 AD in the same way as Swords of The Prophet were instrumental in other regions.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 14th November 2018, 02:50 PM

There are good reasons to refloat this thread since the historical record seems to be warming up in this regard...In my view although this hangs by a thread(scuse pun) the placement of 1000 AD seems to me hasty regarding the Sayf Yemaani...since it cannot be seen from whom this arrived or was developed it being too late as an Ibaathi sword and unrelated to Persian Islamic style. In the same vein an Ibaathi weapon cannot have been reflected back as a Abbasiid weapon since religion was a one way street as far as design was concerned. For example Islamic weapons were not transferred to Hindu soldiers and the same the other way... It couldn't happen. The Abassid fought the Ibaathi and no quarter was given... They could hardly have adopted the enemys weaponry in this regard. If the weapon was indeed a Sword of the Prophet...specifically The Ibaathi Weapon then it would have been there at the beginning with Ibn Julanda… just after 750 but may have been there before by a few years and I would say 632AD.

To remind readers this Sword is the epitome of Islamic weapons since it is still around today having been Iconized in the early 19thC in the Reign of Saaid Sultan who ruled Oman 1804 to 1856. The present ruler is seen at p69 with his Iconized Sayf Yemaani.

The weapon is suspected as being painted onto miniature manuscript at Les Maqâmât d' Aboû Moḥammad al-Qâsim ibn ʿAlî al-Ḥarîrî 1201-1300 and seen at 98 and other posts above.

A peculiar incident by a Captain Roe in the 17th C has a weapon being supposedly dug from a grave on Jebel Akhdar in Oman near Nizwa but it was not the way bodies were normally buried in Islamic tradition usually without any artefacts or weapons.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 2nd December 2018, 07:02 PM

The Sayf Yamaani .

I wondered if anyone had seen anything older in reference to the weapon style being hunted down ...The style similar to the above al Harriri depictions at post 98 of about a thousand years ago like for example shown clearly on the battle scene below… probably a reconnaissance group on the hoof at the battle of Badr in 624 CE.

The Muslim warrior on the right of the mounted group has his sword in the traditional high mount on a sling at the shoulder or neck. It appears to be a straight bladed weapon but on inspection under magnification the hilt is a bulbous pommel and seems to be Sayf Yamaani in form.

This infers that the weapon style was in common use and would have accompanied delegations spreading the religion to wider regions and entirely underpins its transition as The Ibaathi Sword of Oman where it must have entered the historical record in Oman in 751AD with their leader Ibn Julanda etc etc

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 9th July 2019, 12:10 PM

This Sayf Yamaani has resurfaced from the client who procured it here many years ago and it is now in Australia.

I occasionally see these hilts with a zig zag decoration as shown accompanied by a couple of parallel lines simply placed below. The hilt showing under the leather grip is hexagonal and of two parts riveted through a wooden core.

The Example in The Al Ain Museum is shown to compare the zig zag on the hilt and to note a possible use of decorative anchor points for adornment in this case two silver studs....often empty.

28th July 2017, 07:51 AM	#3
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Back to basics. What are the implications in sword hilt design on the Sayf Yamaani? 1. Dealing with the Quilons. My view is that these follow the basic concept of a moon shape simply constructed. Many pieces of Omani silver jewelery follow the same idea from necklaces to ear rings, half bangles, and danglers.. Silver Jewelery invokes the idea of The Moon. Gold is for the Sun. I place below the full hilt of the Sayf Yamaani and next to it a jade hilt from another region .. showing the moon phase....and dragon head finials. In addition a few examples of moon shaped Omani Silver to compare. 2. The hand grip. This grip is not tubular but octagonal and well worn. It illustrates the Minaret form. 3. The Pommel looks like the top part of the Minaret from which emanates the call to prayer. It is multi sided often 6 or 8 sides...and sometimes decorated in simple silver script. The emphasis is on simplicity of Islamic design in keeping with Ibaathi principles. Staunch without over decoration but simple and pious. This provides part of the final bridge between 1000 AD and almost 4 centuries before that when I posit the Sayf Yamaani originally appeared in the same configuration... and remained the same until the 19th C. For this reason I suggest the sword is Iconic with the Ibaathi concept and was accepted in about 650 AD in the same way as Swords of The Prophet were instrumental in other regions. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 28th July 2017 at 08:05 AM.

14th November 2018, 02:50 PM	#4
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	There are good reasons to refloat this thread since the historical record seems to be warming up in this regard...In my view although this hangs by a thread(scuse pun) the placement of 1000 AD seems to me hasty regarding the Sayf Yemaani...since it cannot be seen from whom this arrived or was developed it being too late as an Ibaathi sword and unrelated to Persian Islamic style. In the same vein an Ibaathi weapon cannot have been reflected back as a Abbasiid weapon since religion was a one way street as far as design was concerned. For example Islamic weapons were not transferred to Hindu soldiers and the same the other way... It couldn't happen. The Abassid fought the Ibaathi and no quarter was given... They could hardly have adopted the enemys weaponry in this regard. If the weapon was indeed a Sword of the Prophet...specifically The Ibaathi Weapon then it would have been there at the beginning with Ibn Julanda… just after 750 but may have been there before by a few years and I would say 632AD. To remind readers this Sword is the epitome of Islamic weapons since it is still around today having been Iconized in the early 19thC in the Reign of Saaid Sultan who ruled Oman 1804 to 1856. The present ruler is seen at p69 with his Iconized Sayf Yemaani. The weapon is suspected as being painted onto miniature manuscript at Les Maqâmât d' Aboû Moḥammad al-Qâsim ibn ʿAlî al-Ḥarîrî 1201-1300 and seen at 98 and other posts above. A peculiar incident by a Captain Roe in the 17th C has a weapon being supposedly dug from a grave on Jebel Akhdar in Oman near Nizwa but it was not the way bodies were normally buried in Islamic tradition usually without any artefacts or weapons. Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 14th November 2018 at 03:15 PM.

2nd December 2018, 07:02 PM	#5
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	The Sayf Yamaani . I wondered if anyone had seen anything older in reference to the weapon style being hunted down ...The style similar to the above al Harriri depictions at post 98 of about a thousand years ago like for example shown clearly on the battle scene below… probably a reconnaissance group on the hoof at the battle of Badr in 624 CE. The Muslim warrior on the right of the mounted group has his sword in the traditional high mount on a sling at the shoulder or neck. It appears to be a straight bladed weapon but on inspection under magnification the hilt is a bulbous pommel and seems to be Sayf Yamaani in form. This infers that the weapon style was in common use and would have accompanied delegations spreading the religion to wider regions and entirely underpins its transition as The Ibaathi Sword of Oman where it must have entered the historical record in Oman in 751AD with their leader Ibn Julanda etc etc Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 2nd December 2018 at 07:14 PM.

9th July 2019, 12:10 PM	#6
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	This Sayf Yamaani has resurfaced from the client who procured it here many years ago and it is now in Australia. I occasionally see these hilts with a zig zag decoration as shown accompanied by a couple of parallel lines simply placed below. The hilt showing under the leather grip is hexagonal and of two parts riveted through a wooden core. The Example in The Al Ain Museum is shown to compare the zig zag on the hilt and to note a possible use of decorative anchor points for adornment in this case two silver studs....often empty. Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 9th July 2019 at 12:25 PM.

28th July 2017, 03:59 AM	#1
Gonzalo G Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Nothern Mexico Posts: 458	Salam aleikum, Ibrahiim. I believe that your sword and the jineta have a common ancestry in the "classic" muslim sword. Regards