Signal gun or failed experiment?

M ELEY · 24th July 2017, 03:20 PM

Very interesting! es, it does does sound like it was cast in this way to direct the barrel in an upwards direction. With the trunnions being level and this thickened bottom reinforcement to slant the barrel upwards, I'm leaning towards a signal gun. Again, little more than a novice here. I was hoping some others might still come in on this one with their opinions.

Rick · 24th July 2017, 03:57 PM

Mr. Google seems to imply that cannon were not unusual on flatboats and keelboats; probably to deter Indian attacks and or river pirates.
The lining may have been inserted due to the brass becoming 'honeycombed' with age and use.

Battara · 27th July 2017, 05:24 AM

There are a lot of Southeast Asian cannon that are being made today with inserts like this but are being sold as old.

I wonder if this is a recent make, due to this and the holes I see on the outside, as well as the touch hole that is too crisp around the edges.

These are my musings.

Helleri · 31st August 2017, 02:03 AM

It's a Swivel Gun (by the looks of it 18th c. french naval if authentic). A small caliber anti-personnel cannon (sometimes musket) primarily for warships and merchant vessels. An old bronze one like that would have originally been mounted to a U shaped yoke via those trunions. This would allow it to pivot on the vertical axis. And the long round rod coming off the bottom of that yoke would be dropped into a hole in a ships rails or Bulwarks (sometimes even on crows nests). This would allow it to pivot on the horizontal axis. That knob on the back. That's what you'd toggle and stabilize it by (yeah...Unfortunately with your hand on the early ones).

These would mostly be positioned fore an aft on a ship, in case of close pursuit or a crossing the T maneuver. If the sailor manning it was on his game and a little lucky. He'd have a good chance at taking out a crucial member of an enemy crew.

You might actually want to make sure it isn't still loaded. They were generally kept loaded. As when it was time to put it into action. there wasn't time to load or reload it considering the very specific circumstances of it's use. You had one shot pretty much. And you had to try to make it count. That could be an old fuse in the touch hole and not corrosion. It would be flush fused to insure getting a quick shot off.

kronckew · 14th September 2017, 02:17 PM

if a keel boat gun, may have been loaded with a charge of musket or pistol balls as a large shotgun for repelling boarders. would bronze corrode in fresh water,
and likely covered in sediment restricting oxygen availability, like that in a couple of hundred years? 2000 yr. old roman bronze artifacts are usually in better shape. if it were galvanic corrosion based on the steel bore insert, i suspect that the iron would have gone before the bronze.

i recall reading here about small indonesian cannon (lantaka) that turned out to be bronze or brass sheet over a concrete core with a iron or brass pipe bore. caveat emptor.

Will M · 14th September 2017, 04:10 PM

Only reason to line the bore is they didn't trust the brass casting.
No period cannons were made of brass with iron/steel bore liners.
I would say a relatively modern piece that has corroded.
I built a similar one using an unknown iron casting and having a seamless stainless steel tube hydraulically press fit into the bore.

31st August 2017, 02:03 AM	#4
Helleri Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Chino, CA. Posts: 219	It's a Swivel Gun (by the looks of it 18th c. french naval if authentic). A small caliber anti-personnel cannon (sometimes musket) primarily for warships and merchant vessels. An old bronze one like that would have originally been mounted to a U shaped yoke via those trunions. This would allow it to pivot on the vertical axis. And the long round rod coming off the bottom of that yoke would be dropped into a hole in a ships rails or Bulwarks (sometimes even on crows nests). This would allow it to pivot on the horizontal axis. That knob on the back. That's what you'd toggle and stabilize it by (yeah...Unfortunately with your hand on the early ones). These would mostly be positioned fore an aft on a ship, in case of close pursuit or a crossing the T maneuver. If the sailor manning it was on his game and a little lucky. He'd have a good chance at taking out a crucial member of an enemy crew. You might actually want to make sure it isn't still loaded. They were generally kept loaded. As when it was time to put it into action. there wasn't time to load or reload it considering the very specific circumstances of it's use. You had one shot pretty much. And you had to try to make it count. That could be an old fuse in the touch hole and not corrosion. It would be flush fused to insure getting a quick shot off. Last edited by Helleri; 31st August 2017 at 02:31 AM.

14th September 2017, 02:17 PM	#5
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	if a keel boat gun, may have been loaded with a charge of musket or pistol balls as a large shotgun for repelling boarders. would bronze corrode in fresh water, and likely covered in sediment restricting oxygen availability, like that in a couple of hundred years? 2000 yr. old roman bronze artifacts are usually in better shape. if it were galvanic corrosion based on the steel bore insert, i suspect that the iron would have gone before the bronze. i recall reading here about small indonesian cannon (lantaka) that turned out to be bronze or brass sheet over a concrete core with a iron or brass pipe bore. caveat emptor. Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 14th September 2017 at 02:28 PM.

24th July 2017, 03:20 PM	#1
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Very interesting! es, it does does sound like it was cast in this way to direct the barrel in an upwards direction. With the trunnions being level and this thickened bottom reinforcement to slant the barrel upwards, I'm leaning towards a signal gun. Again, little more than a novice here. I was hoping some others might still come in on this one with their opinions.

24th July 2017, 03:57 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Mr. Google seems to imply that cannon were not unusual on flatboats and keelboats; probably to deter Indian attacks and or river pirates. The lining may have been inserted due to the brass becoming 'honeycombed' with age and use.

27th July 2017, 05:24 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	There are a lot of Southeast Asian cannon that are being made today with inserts like this but are being sold as old. I wonder if this is a recent make, due to this and the holes I see on the outside, as well as the touch hole that is too crisp around the edges. These are my musings.

14th September 2017, 04:10 PM	#6
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 394	Only reason to line the bore is they didn't trust the brass casting. No period cannons were made of brass with iron/steel bore liners. I would say a relatively modern piece that has corroded. I built a similar one using an unknown iron casting and having a seamless stainless steel tube hydraulically press fit into the bore.