Morocco dagger!

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 8th July 2017, 12:03 AM

Please see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22848 which is the forum site Motan is referring to... Your pictures show a dagger made with a hot needle in tailoring terms !! ... thus you will be better off waiting to see a better one ... with more skill in the making.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

rickystl · 8th July 2017, 04:39 PM

While not in my area of collecting, I do own one Koummya. And I thought I would post it here on this Thread for opinions. The Links posted above were most helpful. So here are a bunch of pics. Overall, this appears to be a typical, well made Koummya that was carried in general use. The brass cover on the scabbard and handle are fairly heavy. The blade seems to be of good quality with good cutting edges, but a bit dull from age. There is a smaller amount of engraving on the back side versus the front. Scabbard slightly bent at the tip. Scabbard and handle need a bit of cleaning which I will attend to. Of course the colored shoulder rope was added by myself. But the dagger does appear to have been carried in use. As far as age, based on what I've read, I'm guessing early 20th Century. Does that appear to be correct? Thanks for any comments.

Rick

rickystl · 8th July 2017, 04:41 PM

MORE PICS.............

rickystl · 8th July 2017, 04:42 PM

LAST TWO.........

Bob A · 9th July 2017, 06:40 AM

Regarding the first koumaya, it appears to be quite crude in all respects. The scabbard, while being perhaps the most attractive part of the ensemble, I would guess from the attachment of the rings to be no earlier than mid-twentieth century.

The second has a far nicer blade than the earlier example. I have no clue regarding the stamping on the blade. The scabbard and hilt are crudely soldered, and not particularly well-ornamented. I would guess, again, that it is earlier than the first example, and could well be a weapon carried by a local, rather than a tourist item. The wear from the rings would point to its being carried suspended. Early 20th century seems reasonable to me.

That said, please do not mistake me for any sort of expert.

motan · 9th July 2017, 08:58 AM

Hi rickystl,
Also not my area of collection, but I bought one recently and it was discussed on the forum (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22848) together with the subject of koummyas in general. I recommend you to read it because members of the forum have contributed examples and sources.

As for your koummya, it cerntainly looks like an authentic ethnographic item that has been used by its owner: the holes for the rings, the general wear of the surface and the signs of repeted re-sharpening of the blade. The type, in terms of general design is common and old-in fact, it is the same as the one I posted in the thread above.
The shape and quality of blade look good but are hard to judge due to grinding. The sign on the blade usually means imported blade (or trying to look like one). Blades have been imported from all over Europe (Italy, France, England, Germany and Spain), but I would guess this is a Spanish blade. I think that early 20th c. as Bob said is a good estimate, but it could be +\- 20 years.
All good, but this is not a dagger for the rich. In "better" ones, the whole front is plated with silver (or even made of solid silver), while in yours, onle small part appear to have be covered with silver.
In summary, old and genuine koummya, but also simple and with lots of wear.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 9th July 2017, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickystl

MORE PICS.............

I think the bust / head on the blade is of the VIP below:

Mohammed V (10 August 1909 – 26 February 1961) (Arabic: محمد الخامس‎‎) was Sultan of Morocco from 1927 to 1953, exiled from 1953 to 1955, where he was again recognized as Sultan upon his return, and King from 1957 to 1961. His full name was Sidi Mohammed ben Yusef, or Son of (Sultan) Yusef, upon whose death he succeeded to the throne. He was a member of the Alaouite Dynasty.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Sajen · 9th July 2017, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickystl

And I thought I would post it here on this Thread for opinions. .... As far as age, based on what I've read, I'm guessing early 20th Century. Does that appear to be correct?

Hello Rick,

I am really no expert regarding this sort of daggers but I see a nice, authentic and "tribal" used dagger with a lot of wear and old repairs, the bend tip of the scabbard I've seen before by old and used pieces. Like Motan said, not a rich mans example but truly a collectible ethnographic dagger with interesting blade. Sorry Stefan, but I think that this one would be a better start to collect koumayas. A better piece with silver will cost more, even today!

Regards,
Detlef

Hombre · 9th July 2017, 01:02 PM

Thank you all for your opinions.... I really appreciate it and that is why a forum like this is so very valuable....
Well, I am very glad that I asked about this Koummya and from that question I think I have learned a lot by just reading the answers and read the other threads of these kind of daggers.
One day I will have at least one Koummya but I am in no hurry....
Meanwhile I collect what I know best and that is old Winchester leverguns and Colt SAA revolvers....

Best,
Stefan
Sweden

rickystl · 9th July 2017, 03:45 PM

"In summary, old and genuine koummya, but also simple and with lots of wear."

Thank you ALL for your comments and Links. Amazing what you can learn on this Forum. I'm surprised the blade is in as good condition as it is. As mentioned, the dagger does not look abused, just well used in it's daily affairs. LOL

Thanks again for the help. Much appreciated.

Rick

8th July 2017, 04:39 PM	#2
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,629	While not in my area of collecting, I do own one Koummya. And I thought I would post it here on this Thread for opinions. The Links posted above were most helpful. So here are a bunch of pics. Overall, this appears to be a typical, well made Koummya that was carried in general use. The brass cover on the scabbard and handle are fairly heavy. The blade seems to be of good quality with good cutting edges, but a bit dull from age. There is a smaller amount of engraving on the back side versus the front. Scabbard slightly bent at the tip. Scabbard and handle need a bit of cleaning which I will attend to. Of course the colored shoulder rope was added by myself. But the dagger does appear to have been carried in use. As far as age, based on what I've read, I'm guessing early 20th Century. Does that appear to be correct? Thanks for any comments. Rick Attached Images

8th July 2017, 04:41 PM	#3
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,629	MORE PICS............. Attached Images

8th July 2017, 04:42 PM	#4
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,629	LAST TWO......... Attached Images

8th July 2017, 12:03 AM	#1
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Please see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22848 which is the forum site Motan is referring to... Your pictures show a dagger made with a hot needle in tailoring terms !! ... thus you will be better off waiting to see a better one ... with more skill in the making. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

9th July 2017, 06:40 AM	#5
Bob A Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 435	Regarding the first koumaya, it appears to be quite crude in all respects. The scabbard, while being perhaps the most attractive part of the ensemble, I would guess from the attachment of the rings to be no earlier than mid-twentieth century. The second has a far nicer blade than the earlier example. I have no clue regarding the stamping on the blade. The scabbard and hilt are crudely soldered, and not particularly well-ornamented. I would guess, again, that it is earlier than the first example, and could well be a weapon carried by a local, rather than a tourist item. The wear from the rings would point to its being carried suspended. Early 20th century seems reasonable to me. That said, please do not mistake me for any sort of expert.

9th July 2017, 08:58 AM	#6
motan Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Jerusalem Posts: 274	Hi rickystl, Also not my area of collection, but I bought one recently and it was discussed on the forum (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22848) together with the subject of koummyas in general. I recommend you to read it because members of the forum have contributed examples and sources. As for your koummya, it cerntainly looks like an authentic ethnographic item that has been used by its owner: the holes for the rings, the general wear of the surface and the signs of repeted re-sharpening of the blade. The type, in terms of general design is common and old-in fact, it is the same as the one I posted in the thread above. The shape and quality of blade look good but are hard to judge due to grinding. The sign on the blade usually means imported blade (or trying to look like one). Blades have been imported from all over Europe (Italy, France, England, Germany and Spain), but I would guess this is a Spanish blade. I think that early 20th c. as Bob said is a good estimate, but it could be +\- 20 years. All good, but this is not a dagger for the rich. In "better" ones, the whole front is plated with silver (or even made of solid silver), while in yours, onle small part appear to have be covered with silver. In summary, old and genuine koummya, but also simple and with lots of wear.

9th July 2017, 01:02 PM	#9
Hombre Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 232	Thank you all for your opinions.... I really appreciate it and that is why a forum like this is so very valuable.... Well, I am very glad that I asked about this Koummya and from that question I think I have learned a lot by just reading the answers and read the other threads of these kind of daggers. One day I will have at least one Koummya but I am in no hurry.... Meanwhile I collect what I know best and that is old Winchester leverguns and Colt SAA revolvers.... Best, Stefan Sweden

9th July 2017, 03:45 PM	#10
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,629	"In summary, old and genuine koummya, but also simple and with lots of wear." Thank you ALL for your comments and Links. Amazing what you can learn on this Forum. I'm surprised the blade is in as good condition as it is. As mentioned, the dagger does not look abused, just well used in it's daily affairs. LOL Thanks again for the help. Much appreciated. Rick