Islamic bow for I.D. and comment

[estcrh]

This is a great representation of a Chinese soldier.

Portrait of a Chinese Imperial Bodyguard (Zhanyinbao), with archery equipment and wearing a sheathed dao (1760). This full-length depiction of an imperial bodyguard of the first rank is from a set of one hundred portraits of loyal officials and valiant warriors commissioned by the Qianlong emperor (r. 1736–95) that originally hung in the Hall of Imperial Brilliance (Ziguang Ge), the pavilion in the Forbidden City where the emperor received tribute offerings and entertained foreign emissaries.

[Philip]

Thanks for sharing this image!

An interesting aside is the position of the saber in its scabbard, hung so that its hilt faces the rear, to avoid getting tangled with the bow in its case, which faces forward. This is typical Manchu practice.

It actually makes for an efficient draw of the blade, since the soldier would have to rotate the lower part of the scabbard rearward with the left hand, and his right will be grasping the hilt for an EDGE UP draw. With the saber fully out, he can cut in any direction as opposed to an edge-down draw, which requires an additional twist of the wrist to deploy the weapon's edge against an opponent. It is for this very reason that many Eastern swords are worn edge-up in a sash (katana, yataghan), or slung on a belt in such way to permit this kind of draw (the shashka is a prime example). If you have a sheathed kilij or shamshir without is suspension cords, try rigging up your own suspension and you will find that these sabers tend to hang in a peculiar angle with the edge up and slightly outward from the side of the body. Factoring in the deep curve of many of these, it makes for a very ergonomic draw!

[estcrh]

Philip, thanks so much for sharing some of your Chinese archery knowledge. Here is a Chinese bow I recently bought, waiting for it to arrive.

[Gonzalo G]

Originally Posted by estcrh

This is a great representation of a Chinese soldier.

Portrait of a Chinese Imperial Bodyguard (Zhanyinbao), with archery equipment and wearing a sheathed dao (1760). This full-length depiction of an imperial bodyguard of the first rank is from a set of one hundred portraits of loyal officials and valiant warriors commissioned by the Qianlong emperor (r. 1736–95) that originally hung in the Hall of Imperial Brilliance (Ziguang Ge), the pavilion in the Forbidden City where the emperor received tribute offerings and entertained foreign emissaries.

Estcrh, thank you for sharing this image and the photo of your bow. It is nice to see that kind of weapons. I wonder if your bow can be still used. Though I understand that special care must be given to the limbs if you try to put a string over an old bow. A risky procedure.
Do you have an idea of the age of your bow?
Regards

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Gonzalo G

Estcrh, thank you for sharing this image and the photo of your bow. It is nice to see that kind of weapons. I wonder if your bow can be still used. Though I understand that special care must be given to the limbs if you try to put a string over an old bow. A risky procedure.
Do you have an idea of the age of your bow?
Regards

Gonzalo, I have wondered about that myself, but I would not take the risk of cracking it. It is a Chinese composite bow, early 19th century, 36 inches long, 16 inches wide.

[Gonzalo G]

Thank you for your response and the measures. Yes, it´s better to stay on the safe side and don't force those old limbs. It is a valuable and beautiful piece.
Regards

[Philip]

Originally Posted by Gonzalo G

Thank you for your response and the measures. Yes, it´s better to stay on the safe side and don't force those old limbs. It is a valuable and beautiful piece.
Regards

Wise advice, Gonzalo. Stringing a composite bow calls for its own techniques. Do you have Paul E Klopsteg's TURKISH ARCHERY AND THE COMPOSITE BOW (Manchester University, Museum: 1934 repr 1987)? Practically everything you wanted to know about design, manufacture, history, performance, and shooting techniques involving Ottoman bows, with comparative notes in an appendix with mention of Chinese, Korean, and modern (as of the 1930s) longbows. A lot of the material is excerpted from old Turkish manuals and the notes are mostly by archers who traveled and observed.

The info includes detailed instructions on stringing, and the appendix notes also explain how ambient temperature must be taken into account in order to do it safely with "difficult" bows.

[estcrh]

Thanks to Philip, Peter and a few other individuals, in the last few years a lot of information on Chinese archery and Chinese weapons in general has become available to learn from, both as images and text.

Something not often seen is good closeup images of Chinese arrows, here is an example of a Chinese bow with arrows.

Composite Chinese Bow and Arrows

A nice find: A complete 19C. Chinese bow with 10 arrows. The bow is of the composite structure, 43 inches long, 21 inches wide. The edges as well as the edges are covered with ray skin, dyed in green and white, and inlaid with antelope and bird also cut from ray skin. The arrows are long, 35 inches each with steel blades and long feathered tails.

[estcrh]

Chinese "Manchu" arrows, from http://www.manchuarchery.org/arrows

[Gonzalo G]

Originally Posted by estcrh

A nice find: A complete 19C. Chinese bow with 10 arrows. The bow is of the composite structure, 43 inches long, 21 inches wide. The edges as well as the edges are covered with ray skin, dyed in green and white, and inlaid with antelope and bird also cut from ray skin. The arrows are long, 35 inches each with steel blades and long feathered tails.

Thank you for those pictures and the link, Estcrh. Great bow! seems also Manchu style, and is complete, with the "bridges" to guide the string, The collection of arrows is very interesting.

Pity that Philip is on the other side of the border, for if he would be instead on Texas, I could cross the border to talk with him.

Regards

[Gonzalo G]

Originally Posted by Philip

Do you have Paul E Klopsteg's TURKISH ARCHERY AND THE COMPOSITE BOW (Manchester University, Museum: 1934 repr 1987)? Practically everything you wanted to know about design, manufacture, history, performance, and shooting techniques involving Ottoman bows, with comparative notes in an appendix with mention of Chinese, Korean, and modern (as of the 1930s) longbows. A lot of the material is excerpted from old Turkish manuals and the notes are mostly by archers who traveled and observed.

The info includes detailed instructions on stringing, and the appendix notes also explain how ambient temperature must be taken into account in order to do it safely with "difficult" bows.

No, Philip. I didn't have it and I have nor read it. Thanks to you, I just get one copy. And I would appreciate more recommendations from you on the matter of historic archery, how to make and use historic bows and related subjects. Thank you. I appreciate very much all the advice and guidance I can get from the people whom I share this kind of inclinations for the historic weapons. Unfortunately, where I live I don't have the oppotunity to access many items and that imposes me several limitations.

My best regards

[Philip]

Originally Posted by Gonzalo G

Estcrh, thank you for sharing this image and the photo of your bow. It is nice to see that kind of weapons. I wonder if your bow can be still used. Though I understand that special care must be given to the limbs if you try to put a string over an old bow. A risky procedure.
Do you have an idea of the age of your bow?
Regards

Somewhere in my reading I encountered an old Turkish adage stating that the lifetime of a bow is twice that of a man. 'Have been looking through my references for the citation but haven't found it yet, will advise when I do. A lot of my knowledge of these things comes from a colleague, Peter Dekker in Amsterdam, I have forwarded this thread to him and hope that he will contribute something soon.

We both know a fellow in Taiwan who makes Manchu bows in the traditional style, and what's more, is able to restore the performance capabilities of antique bows (that is, assuming that the organic materials have not been consumed by rot, or riddled by insect or worm). It seems that on old bows, what tends to fail with age is the animal or fish glue that holds the laminae together -- exactly the problem that plagues antique string instruments as well. Renew that, with the proper level of skill, and a bow can be brought back to life! Some of these glues can also be rejuvenated in themselves, without having to replace them with modern material (violin restorers do the same thing). Hopefully Mr Dekker will chime in soon on this thread with a more detailed explanation.

I haven't shot any of these old bows myself, but have handled a good number of these in collections. More than a few appear to have been damaged by idiots who have tried to bend them in the WRONG direction. You can tell from looking at what points the laminations have separated.
Haha, on one occasion a collector who showed me his damaged bow told me that's exactly what a "friend" of his tried to do. These weapons were not designed to flex "either way"!