Medieval Weapons and Men At Arms.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 25th June 2017, 06:29 PM

Bow Ranges~

I was looking at a comparison in Bow ranges and comparing the English Longbow to others...including the Turkish Foot Bow...which I assume is called that because of the need to use your foot to press on the bow in order to apply sufficient force to bend it so as top apply the bowstring...The amazing range of the latter weapon was never tested against the English Bow but achieved far longer range distances and easily plus of 400 yards and refined with modern methods to nearly double that today...

See http://www.turkishculture.org/lifest...554.htm?type=1

The detail whilst placed here for the Boffins out there is interesting not least in the peculiar shape of the Bows but also the aerodynamic type of Arrows used in the Turkish example...

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 25th June 2017, 06:49 PM

Please feel free to add any web or Library references....

For Example Crecy, Sluys and Azincourt were landslide victories for the English Archers but Formigny was a disaster caused by undefended archers positions being broken and over run causing a decisive rout. See https://www.thoughtco.com/hundred-ye...rmigny-2360754

Below the English are routed at Formigny but at Sluys the rainstorm of English arrows destroyed the French crammed on board ships.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 25th June 2017, 07:17 PM

I mentioned earlier the phenomenal Turkish Foot Bow and note that there is a video showing how to string it...indeed using the feet in a gymnastic piece of magic best viewed at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVPs9zRASfU

and viewable on Forum Library at #26 on http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=Longbow

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 26th June 2017, 07:34 PM

PATAY 18 June 1429.

Patay was to the French what Agincourt was to the English. It turned into a disaster and a rout that claimed half the English Army through a mistake in the defences of the Longbow men. It was an almost reverse of Agincourt enabling the French heavy horse to utterly grind up the Archers who had only attained a half baked defence that the French Cavalry swept aside.

See http://www.longbow-archers.com/historypatay.html

From the above reference I Quote"The English position was therefore not fully consolidated by the time it was attacked. Protection offered by the terrain was minor and crucially for the longbow men there were no features that protected the flanks. All the basic ingredients of a well-protected position that had been so visibly present at Crécy, Poitiers and Agincourt, were absent at Patay".Unquote.

See also https://www.thoughtco.com/aftermath-...rs-war-1221904

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 27th June 2017, 07:38 PM

The next battle chosen for its importance though I have to say I never heard of it !!

The Battle of Bouvines in 1214

On July 12, 1214, Philip II Augustus, the King of France, defeated the combined forces of emperor Otto IV, the count of Flanders, and King John of England, near Bouvines in northern France. For a detailed analysis of this battle, see the Xenophon Group Military History Database. Several sources give detailed accounts of the battle. To key in to the details simply run your mouse over any line and apply it to your web search.

The Marchiennes account of the battle of Bouvines

Anonymous of Bethune's account of the battle of Bouvines

The battle of Bouvines according to the Phlippiad by William of Breton

Roger of Wendover's account of the battle of Bouvines

The battle of Bouvines according to William of Breton (prose account)

The battle of Bouvines according to Philippe Mousket

The battle of Bouvines according to the Minstel of Reims

The battle of Bouvines according to shorter chronicles

Below; The Surrender.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 27th June 2017, 07:55 PM

To bring to a close Medieval Battles yet to leave the subject wide open to view... I place~

https://www.google.com/search?q=Medi...hrome&ie=UTF-8

...Setting out scores of Medieval encounters which you can examine in detail and in your own time....

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 30th June 2017, 02:02 AM

The MET Museum has an astonishing video which is a must see... Please see http://www.metmuseum.org/metmedia/vi...rmor-galleries ... personally I had not realised how easy to move around in was armour... and that a Knight could get on and off his horse unaided...or that Jousting Helms were bolted onto the armour! Please view this remarkable documentary.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 7th July 2017, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Bow Ranges~

I was looking at a comparison in Bow ranges and comparing the English Longbow to others...including the Turkish Foot Bow...which I assume is called that because of the need to use your foot to press on the bow in order to apply sufficient force to bend it so as top apply the bowstring...The amazing range of the latter weapon was never tested against the English Bow but achieved far longer range distances and easily plus of 400 yards and refined with modern methods to nearly double that today...

See http://www.turkishculture.org/lifest...554.htm?type=1

The detail whilst placed here for the Boffins out there is interesting not least in the peculiar shape of the Bows but also the aerodynamic type of Arrows used in the Turkish example...

For interest and Library I place books on Archery as I have done for Ethnographic...The Blue book and the book with the Arab archer are the same with the latter as a reprint. The Other book is the European relevant book... all placed for comparison and interest.

NeilUK · 9th July 2017, 03:52 PM

Hello Fernando, the posts of ms illustrations by Ibrahiim and yourself is brilliant - thank you. I am currently researching 2-hand swords and noticed a couple of good images among your posts, especially the last image in #7 and the first in #8 (17-18 June). I assume they are both from a ms of Froissart's chronicles; do you have an exact reference for them? or even better a higher resolution photo which I could use. I already have the earlier one from the Jean de Wavrin chronicle, but not these. I would be most grateful for any help you can give me.
Kind regards, Neil

fernando · 9th July 2017, 05:06 PM

Hi Neil,
I don't keep an organized file on this material as i have edited the images for saving and uploading and the original data is gonne. I would advance however that, the two images you refer are also from Wavrin's chronicle. The source i picked them from is the chronicle itself and has no higher resolution; but there is an optional zoom in the page that i ignore if it compensates to switch.
You can see for yourself HERE

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 10th July 2017, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilUK

Hello Fernando, the posts of ms illustrations by Ibrahiim and yourself is brilliant - thank you. I am currently researching 2-hand swords and noticed a couple of good images among your posts, especially the last image in #7 and the first in #8 (17-18 June). I assume they are both from a ms of Froissart's chronicles; do you have an exact reference for them? or even better a higher resolution photo which I could use. I already have the earlier one from the Jean de Wavrin chronicle, but not these. I would be most grateful for any help you can give me.
Kind regards, Neil

Salaams NeilUK~ Thank you for your kind comments about the Medieval Thread. Actually I was looking at a good website on Two Handed swords http://www.thearma.org/essays/2HGS.html#.WWLJCmKGPIU

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 10th July 2017, 01:41 AM

There is a very good website at

http://www.historyextra.com/article/...cant-agincourt

which states that there are 9 more important medieval battles than Agincourt.... and which I commend to members.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 10th July 2017, 03:16 AM

Now to look at Medieval Seige Engines ... Trebuchet.

A huge team of engineers using medieval methodology was gathered together and against the backdrop of Loch Ness in Scotland they carried out a test firing having constructed two mighty seige weapons ... Trebuchet... against a 5 feet thick stone wall built for the experiment about 250 yards down range....using 250 pounder stone balls... would it work?

See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0wnOO4U-yg and watch what happened.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 10th July 2017, 06:16 AM

I suspect not many people know this~

Origin of the term 'Pell Mell'
The true origin of the term 'Pell Mell' has become somewhat confused over the passing of time. The name has its origins in France. The old French word “pallemaille” means “ball and mallet” and comes from the Latin “pallamaglio” ('palla' meaning a ball and 'maglio' meaning a mallet). Another French word “pêle-mêle”, meaning to mix. Pell Mell was given as the name to an old English game which was played using a mallet and a large wooden. The current definition of 'Pell Mell' is 'in mingled confusion or disorder'.

The Game of Pell Mell
Pell Mell was a name given to a rough Medieval game. The players of Pell Mell drove the ball along the Pell Mell playing area by taking immense swings at it with a mallet. They then had to shoot the ball through a suspended hoop at the end of the field. The term Pell Mell was changed in translation and gave name to the famous London Road called Pall Mall where the game Pell Mell was played! Samuel Pepys wrote in his diary for 2nd April 1661: “So I into St. James’s Park, where I saw the Duke of York playing at Pelemele, the first time that ever I saw the sport.”

The Origin of the Game of Pell Mell

A connection can be made with Pell Mell and the training of Medieval Knights. The knights of the Middle Ages practised "Running at the Rings" where their skill at using the lance weapon was practised. The lance was aimed at a target in the shape of a ring - "Running at the Rings". The term 'Mêlée' was closely associated with jousting and knights. Mêlée: A Melee was a team combat or ‘free for all’ where teams or groups of individuals met in the field. The current definition of 'Pell Mell' is 'in mingled confusion or disorder'. It is quite conceivable that the game 'Pell Mell' was a spin-off from Quintain and Pell Training! A great form of entertainment for knights and soldiers during the Medieval period of the Middle Ages.

It appears to have been exported as a word entering the American dictionary for a large shopping centre. The Mall.

26th June 2017, 07:34 PM	#4
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	PATAY 18 June 1429. Patay was to the French what Agincourt was to the English. It turned into a disaster and a rout that claimed half the English Army through a mistake in the defences of the Longbow men. It was an almost reverse of Agincourt enabling the French heavy horse to utterly grind up the Archers who had only attained a half baked defence that the French Cavalry swept aside. See http://www.longbow-archers.com/historypatay.html From the above reference I Quote"The English position was therefore not fully consolidated by the time it was attacked. Protection offered by the terrain was minor and crucially for the longbow men there were no features that protected the flanks. All the basic ingredients of a well-protected position that had been so visibly present at Crécy, Poitiers and Agincourt, were absent at Patay".Unquote. See also https://www.thoughtco.com/aftermath-...rs-war-1221904 Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 26th June 2017 at 07:50 PM.

27th June 2017, 07:38 PM	#5
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	The next battle chosen for its importance though I have to say I never heard of it !! The Battle of Bouvines in 1214 On July 12, 1214, Philip II Augustus, the King of France, defeated the combined forces of emperor Otto IV, the count of Flanders, and King John of England, near Bouvines in northern France. For a detailed analysis of this battle, see the Xenophon Group Military History Database. Several sources give detailed accounts of the battle. To key in to the details simply run your mouse over any line and apply it to your web search. The Marchiennes account of the battle of Bouvines Anonymous of Bethune's account of the battle of Bouvines The battle of Bouvines according to the Phlippiad by William of Breton Roger of Wendover's account of the battle of Bouvines The battle of Bouvines according to William of Breton (prose account) The battle of Bouvines according to Philippe Mousket The battle of Bouvines according to the Minstel of Reims The battle of Bouvines according to shorter chronicles Below; The Surrender. Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 27th June 2017 at 07:48 PM.

27th June 2017, 07:55 PM	#6
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	MEDIEVAL BATTLES. To bring to a close Medieval Battles yet to leave the subject wide open to view... I place~ https://www.google.com/search?q=Medi...hrome&ie=UTF-8 ...Setting out scores of Medieval encounters which you can examine in detail and in your own time.... Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

9th July 2017, 05:06 PM	#10
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Neil, I don't keep an organized file on this material as i have edited the images for saving and uploading and the original data is gonne. I would advance however that, the two images you refer are also from Wavrin's chronicle. The source i picked them from is the chronicle itself and has no higher resolution; but there is an optional zoom in the page that i ignore if it compensates to switch. You can see for yourself HERE Last edited by fernando; 10th July 2017 at 04:53 PM.

25th June 2017, 06:29 PM	#1
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Bow Ranges~ I was looking at a comparison in Bow ranges and comparing the English Longbow to others...including the Turkish Foot Bow...which I assume is called that because of the need to use your foot to press on the bow in order to apply sufficient force to bend it so as top apply the bowstring...The amazing range of the latter weapon was never tested against the English Bow but achieved far longer range distances and easily plus of 400 yards and refined with modern methods to nearly double that today... See http://www.turkishculture.org/lifest...554.htm?type=1 The detail whilst placed here for the Boffins out there is interesting not least in the peculiar shape of the Bows but also the aerodynamic type of Arrows used in the Turkish example...

25th June 2017, 06:49 PM	#2
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Please feel free to add any web or Library references.... For Example Crecy, Sluys and Azincourt were landslide victories for the English Archers but Formigny was a disaster caused by undefended archers positions being broken and over run causing a decisive rout. See https://www.thoughtco.com/hundred-ye...rmigny-2360754 Below the English are routed at Formigny but at Sluys the rainstorm of English arrows destroyed the French crammed on board ships. Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 25th June 2017 at 07:46 PM.

25th June 2017, 07:17 PM	#3
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	I mentioned earlier the phenomenal Turkish Foot Bow and note that there is a video showing how to string it...indeed using the feet in a gymnastic piece of magic best viewed at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVPs9zRASfU and viewable on Forum Library at #26 on http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=Longbow

30th June 2017, 02:02 AM	#7
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	The MET Museum has an astonishing video which is a must see... Please see http://www.metmuseum.org/metmedia/vi...rmor-galleries ... personally I had not realised how easy to move around in was armour... and that a Knight could get on and off his horse unaided...or that Jousting Helms were bolted onto the armour! Please view this remarkable documentary.

9th July 2017, 03:52 PM	#9
NeilUK Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Scotland Posts: 126	Hello Fernando, the posts of ms illustrations by Ibrahiim and yourself is brilliant - thank you. I am currently researching 2-hand swords and noticed a couple of good images among your posts, especially the last image in #7 and the first in #8 (17-18 June). I assume they are both from a ms of Froissart's chronicles; do you have an exact reference for them? or even better a higher resolution photo which I could use. I already have the earlier one from the Jean de Wavrin chronicle, but not these. I would be most grateful for any help you can give me. Kind regards, Neil

10th July 2017, 01:41 AM	#12
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	There is a very good website at http://www.historyextra.com/article/...cant-agincourt which states that there are 9 more important medieval battles than Agincourt.... and which I commend to members. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

10th July 2017, 03:16 AM	#13
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Now to look at Medieval Seige Engines ... Trebuchet. A huge team of engineers using medieval methodology was gathered together and against the backdrop of Loch Ness in Scotland they carried out a test firing having constructed two mighty seige weapons ... Trebuchet... against a 5 feet thick stone wall built for the experiment about 250 yards down range....using 250 pounder stone balls... would it work? See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0wnOO4U-yg and watch what happened. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

10th July 2017, 06:16 AM	#14
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	I suspect not many people know this~ Origin of the term 'Pell Mell' The true origin of the term 'Pell Mell' has become somewhat confused over the passing of time. The name has its origins in France. The old French word “pallemaille” means “ball and mallet” and comes from the Latin “pallamaglio” ('palla' meaning a ball and 'maglio' meaning a mallet). Another French word “pêle-mêle”, meaning to mix. Pell Mell was given as the name to an old English game which was played using a mallet and a large wooden. The current definition of 'Pell Mell' is 'in mingled confusion or disorder'. The Game of Pell Mell Pell Mell was a name given to a rough Medieval game. The players of Pell Mell drove the ball along the Pell Mell playing area by taking immense swings at it with a mallet. They then had to shoot the ball through a suspended hoop at the end of the field. The term Pell Mell was changed in translation and gave name to the famous London Road called Pall Mall where the game Pell Mell was played! Samuel Pepys wrote in his diary for 2nd April 1661: “So I into St. James’s Park, where I saw the Duke of York playing at Pelemele, the first time that ever I saw the sport.” The Origin of the Game of Pell Mell A connection can be made with Pell Mell and the training of Medieval Knights. The knights of the Middle Ages practised "Running at the Rings" where their skill at using the lance weapon was practised. The lance was aimed at a target in the shape of a ring - "Running at the Rings". The term 'Mêlée' was closely associated with jousting and knights. Mêlée: A Melee was a team combat or ‘free for all’ where teams or groups of individuals met in the field. The current definition of 'Pell Mell' is 'in mingled confusion or disorder'. It is quite conceivable that the game 'Pell Mell' was a spin-off from Quintain and Pell Training! A great form of entertainment for knights and soldiers during the Medieval period of the Middle Ages. It appears to have been exported as a word entering the American dictionary for a large shopping centre. The Mall.