Japanese dagger in Aynu style?

kronckew · 13th June 2017, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tatyana Dianova

... I wasn't able to remove it from the hilt, although there is an opening and no Mekugi. ...

I have a friend that is quite conversant with Ainu weaponry. He's suggested that the eye of the dragon might actually be a second pinning spot, a screw rivet that is undone by holding the back of the rivet with a tool and turning the other eyeball to undo it as most Ainu swords have two holes for them as per the below photo.

He's also commented that this style sword was NOT for the tourist market as suggested, and is a definite Ainu item, but is as used and carried by the Ainu. This is a traditional ceremonial dress for an Ainu sword, and in many early photographs of the Ainu warriors dressed in traditional dress you may see these swords or knives tucked into the belt sash of the kimono, they are not the mounts of a sword that would have been used in battle which have a guard and similar fittings to the usual Japanese katana but different in that they are flatter and smaller.

more photos of a similar ainu weapon also attached.

Rich · 13th June 2017, 05:17 PM

I stand corrected. I Googled Ainu sword images and there are a couple shown similar to this one. Definitely a dress/ceremonial type; fighting swords are much more like katana in their mounts. Always glad to learn.

Rich

kronckew · 13th June 2017, 05:24 PM

i try to learn one new thing every day, then pass it on. we're never too old to learn.

p.s. - even an old dog CAN learn new tricks.

Tatyana Dianova · 13th June 2017, 07:59 PM

Great information, thanks a lot!
I will try to gently remove the eyes of the dragon, and I will share the tang photo if succeeded.

Maskell · 14th June 2017, 04:47 AM

Just a word of caution, many of these metal screw mekugi (rivit) are reversed thread, you think you are unscrewing it but actually tightened it up & to the point of breaking off the head, try it both ways gently. I've learned the hard way years ago.

Best,
Maskell
Jerry

Battara · 14th June 2017, 03:51 PM

Again more great info Maskell. Thank you all for posting and illuminating this type of piece.

pbleed · 16th June 2017, 02:02 AM

While hunting Ainu cutlery I have seen a couple of these short sword that have carved koshirae that seems to reference Ainu motif. They feature something like "fish scale" designs. they are carved on dark wood and they don't look terribly "Japanese." I even one one of these swords, but I have to admit that they do not fit neatly and clearly into Ainu style. My sword of this style is actually a spear point that re-purposed as a sword. That, too, seems appropriate for Ainu swords since they often are built around blades that would NOT be "good" to Japanese users. They're always short swords, too. Finally, these swords often seem to be well carved - as if they were made by Japanese professionals FOR the Ainu market rather than fitted out by Ainu carvers. I prefer the rustic style of individualized Ainu pieces.
The Ainu trade featured lots of items that were made by Japanese officials as ceremonial pieces for men that Japanese wanted to be recognized as important - their pals. I wonder if this sword - and this type - may have been that sort of thing. In any case, I would not work too hard to expose the tang of the blade. It is VERY unlikely to be significant as a "Japanese" blade.
Peter Bleed

13th June 2017, 05:17 PM	#2
Rich Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: comfortably at home, USA Posts: 432	I stand corrected. I Googled Ainu sword images and there are a couple shown similar to this one. Definitely a dress/ceremonial type; fighting swords are much more like katana in their mounts. Always glad to learn. Rich

13th June 2017, 05:24 PM	#3
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,224	i try to learn one new thing every day, then pass it on. we're never too old to learn. p.s. - even an old dog CAN learn new tricks.

13th June 2017, 07:59 PM	#4
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 736	Great information, thanks a lot! I will try to gently remove the eyes of the dragon, and I will share the tang photo if succeeded.

14th June 2017, 04:47 AM	#5
Maskell Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 38	Just a word of caution, many of these metal screw mekugi (rivit) are reversed thread, you think you are unscrewing it but actually tightened it up & to the point of breaking off the head, try it both ways gently. I've learned the hard way years ago. Best, Maskell Jerry

14th June 2017, 03:51 PM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Again more great info Maskell. Thank you all for posting and illuminating this type of piece.

16th June 2017, 02:02 AM	#7
pbleed Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Little Rock, Arkansas Posts: 88	While hunting Ainu cutlery I have seen a couple of these short sword that have carved koshirae that seems to reference Ainu motif. They feature something like "fish scale" designs. they are carved on dark wood and they don't look terribly "Japanese." I even one one of these swords, but I have to admit that they do not fit neatly and clearly into Ainu style. My sword of this style is actually a spear point that re-purposed as a sword. That, too, seems appropriate for Ainu swords since they often are built around blades that would NOT be "good" to Japanese users. They're always short swords, too. Finally, these swords often seem to be well carved - as if they were made by Japanese professionals FOR the Ainu market rather than fitted out by Ainu carvers. I prefer the rustic style of individualized Ainu pieces. The Ainu trade featured lots of items that were made by Japanese officials as ceremonial pieces for men that Japanese wanted to be recognized as important - their pals. I wonder if this sword - and this type - may have been that sort of thing. In any case, I would not work too hard to expose the tang of the blade. It is VERY unlikely to be significant as a "Japanese" blade. Peter Bleed