Spanish Model 1840 Cavalry Sword ?

Gonzalo G · 9th June 2017, 02:01 AM

It looks almost identical to the trooper light cavalry saber model 1840, if for the "belly" on the hilt, since the photograph, as per Vicente Toledo Momparler´s book Espadas Españolas Militares y Civiles (Military and Civilian Spanish Swords), the part of the hilt covered in leather is less rounded in the "belly". That kind of more pronounced "belly" is found on the hilt of the artillery officer´s sabre model 1842. But that is not an important feature, since there were small variants in those years. It is perfectly possible that, in those years of disarray in the Spanish ordinance models, this slightly more pronounced hilt could be used in the making of the light cavalry sabers, but for the reast they are very different weapons.

The light cavalry saber model 1840 was widely used by the Hussars of the Princess, which were made famous for their relevant role in the Campaign of Africa, carried by the General Juan Prim y Prats, Count of Reus, Marquis of Los Castillejos and Viscount of Bruch. The princess in question was Isabel Maria Luisa, the future queen Isabel II of Spain. The original, as per Momparler´s book, had a width of 29 milimeters and a blade lenght of 875 milimeters.
I would say it is the same saber. As per beign some sort of duplicate, I can´t tell without having it on my hands.
Regards

fernando · 12th June 2017, 11:57 AM

But .. what about the initials RV, Gonzalo ?

Gonzalo G · 13th June 2017, 06:02 PM

I don´t have definitive knowledge about this stamp, so I can only speculate. The crown seems to be an independent mark from the initials. They are not made by the same tool, otherwise the crown and the initials would be more close and centered with respect to each other. It is possible that the RV initials are a latest addition. In 1873 was proclamated the first Spanish republic. The new republican government ordered the suppression of all names related with the monarchy. The Regiment of Husssars of the Pincess changed its denomination to Regiment of Villarobledo (Regimiento de Villarobledo). This the initials RV could mean just this name, meanwhile the crown could be the original mark.
Regards

fernando · 13th June 2017, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gonzalo G

...The crown seems to be an independent mark from the initials. They are not made by the same tool, otherwise the crown and the initials would be more close and centered with respect to each other. It is possible that the RV initials are a latest addition...

Good shot, Gonzalo.

drac2k · 13th June 2017, 08:21 PM

Thank you for the very helpful information that you have provided and while your explanation of the "RV," stamp makes sense, I feel that based on your mention of the suppression of all things related to the monarchy that the crown would have been struck or disfigured, certainly not placed side by side.

Gonzalo G · 13th June 2017, 09:22 PM

It could be argued several explanations for the maintenance of the crown, from economic and logistic, to political. In an ideal situation, the crown could be erased, but not necessarily. If I continue speculating, we must take in account: first, that the crown was part of the coat of arms of the first Spanish republic, so it was not indispensable to erase it; second, that the erasing would have more cost and delayings in their delivery back to the cavalry units, in a situation of eminent military danger, and third, the republic only lasted less than two years, with the government embattled amid chaos and financial paucity, which could explain a hasty re-marking of the swords. And don´t forget that an important part of the army still retained their loyalty to the monarchy, as it was proved by the coup d´etat from the General Arsenio Martínez Campos, which conducted to the Borbonic restoration in 1874. It would not be strange that the army only reluctantly re-marked the swords without erasing the crown, specially without the close supervision from the weak government.

Of course, all this is only speculation, but it can point to a possible explanation, in absence of more solid factual/documental data. Take it as a work hypothesis to start with, meanwhile it can be found more information on this subjet.
Regards

drac2k · 13th June 2017, 09:55 PM

Thanks again for your well thought out reply.

9th June 2017, 02:01 AM	#1
Gonzalo G Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Nothern Mexico Posts: 458	It looks almost identical to the trooper light cavalry saber model 1840, if for the "belly" on the hilt, since the photograph, as per Vicente Toledo Momparler´s book Espadas Españolas Militares y Civiles (Military and Civilian Spanish Swords), the part of the hilt covered in leather is less rounded in the "belly". That kind of more pronounced "belly" is found on the hilt of the artillery officer´s sabre model 1842. But that is not an important feature, since there were small variants in those years. It is perfectly possible that, in those years of disarray in the Spanish ordinance models, this slightly more pronounced hilt could be used in the making of the light cavalry sabers, but for the reast they are very different weapons. The light cavalry saber model 1840 was widely used by the Hussars of the Princess, which were made famous for their relevant role in the Campaign of Africa, carried by the General Juan Prim y Prats, Count of Reus, Marquis of Los Castillejos and Viscount of Bruch. The princess in question was Isabel Maria Luisa, the future queen Isabel II of Spain. The original, as per Momparler´s book, had a width of 29 milimeters and a blade lenght of 875 milimeters. I would say it is the same saber. As per beign some sort of duplicate, I can´t tell without having it on my hands. Regards

12th June 2017, 11:57 AM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	But .. what about the initials RV, Gonzalo ?

13th June 2017, 06:02 PM	#3
Gonzalo G Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Nothern Mexico Posts: 458	I don´t have definitive knowledge about this stamp, so I can only speculate. The crown seems to be an independent mark from the initials. They are not made by the same tool, otherwise the crown and the initials would be more close and centered with respect to each other. It is possible that the RV initials are a latest addition. In 1873 was proclamated the first Spanish republic. The new republican government ordered the suppression of all names related with the monarchy. The Regiment of Husssars of the Pincess changed its denomination to Regiment of Villarobledo (Regimiento de Villarobledo). This the initials RV could mean just this name, meanwhile the crown could be the original mark. Regards

13th June 2017, 08:21 PM	#5
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,258	Thank you for the very helpful information that you have provided and while your explanation of the "RV," stamp makes sense, I feel that based on your mention of the suppression of all things related to the monarchy that the crown would have been struck or disfigured, certainly not placed side by side.

13th June 2017, 09:22 PM	#6
Gonzalo G Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Nothern Mexico Posts: 458	It could be argued several explanations for the maintenance of the crown, from economic and logistic, to political. In an ideal situation, the crown could be erased, but not necessarily. If I continue speculating, we must take in account: first, that the crown was part of the coat of arms of the first Spanish republic, so it was not indispensable to erase it; second, that the erasing would have more cost and delayings in their delivery back to the cavalry units, in a situation of eminent military danger, and third, the republic only lasted less than two years, with the government embattled amid chaos and financial paucity, which could explain a hasty re-marking of the swords. And don´t forget that an important part of the army still retained their loyalty to the monarchy, as it was proved by the coup d´etat from the General Arsenio Martínez Campos, which conducted to the Borbonic restoration in 1874. It would not be strange that the army only reluctantly re-marked the swords without erasing the crown, specially without the close supervision from the weak government. Of course, all this is only speculation, but it can point to a possible explanation, in absence of more solid factual/documental data. Take it as a work hypothesis to start with, meanwhile it can be found more information on this subjet. Regards

13th June 2017, 09:55 PM	#7
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,258	Thanks again for your well thought out reply.