Faca da ponta?

kronckew · 19th December 2008, 10:54 PM

just picked this one up on ebay (item 140289167600)

billed as a 'vintage tobacco cutting knife', it looks more like a faca da ponta to me.

no dimensions noted in the description, so i'm hoping it's not a miniature.

will let y'all know dimensions when it arrives. anybody have any more info on these?

fernando · 20th December 2008, 01:10 AM

Hi Wayne
I had one of these; sold it the other day.
Its blade will certainly mesure 20 centimeters; probably nickel plated. You're right in that it is a version of (Brazilian) faca de ponta. The handle is made of German silver and some plastic material. The sheath would be very well made and stitched, although a commercial item, i would say.
Fernando

Gonzalo G · 21st December 2008, 12:10 AM

Fernando, can you identify this scabbard style of construction as portuguese or Brazilian? Thank you.
Regards

Gonzalo

fernando · 21st December 2008, 12:47 AM

Hi Gonzalo
I confess i don't have enough 'luggage' to discuss that.
I concluded my example was Brazilian after several discussions. Actually i took some time to find out, as the motto on the blade sounded French (Enfin), which has misguided me a lot. Eventualy the other day i saw a similar specimen in a street fair, with a different motto, which made me conclude this is current stuff and tourist orientated. I once spotted a Brazilian web site tagging similar items as faca de ponta.
I dare to say that this scabbard type has a South American touch, but that is very contingent, as such South American tendences originated from here in the Peninsula.
Fernando

kronckew · 22nd December 2008, 03:10 PM

the faca has arrived, nice little knife, single edged 16 cm. off-centre blade and an 8 cm. false edge, 1.8 cm. wide at grip, 2.8 mm. thick at the small 1.4 cm. x 1 mm circular german silver guard. the blade is inscribed 'PILOTO' in a 1 cm. high serif font. i gather this may be the name of a tobacco company in brasil that may have had these made as commemoratives, possibly why the seller referred to it as a tobacco cutting knife. it does appear to be nickle plated as noted above.

the grip, in alternating sections of german siver and a tan/custard colored plastic is 9.5 cm. the tang goes thru a final german silver rounded nut with annular grooves, where it is peened. the final domed shape metal section covering a hemisphere of the final plastic ball pommel section is inscribed with a dotted flower pattern and appears to be patinated brass.

the scabbard is leather with a leather chape and a throat section sewn over it with a downward protruding tongue to act as a belt stop.

kronckew · 26th February 2017, 08:07 PM

'piloto' appears to be a type of south american tobacco used in premium cigars.

machinist · 27th February 2017, 04:01 AM

Here is a fellow with a similar knife. The worn-in-front style seems dangerous to me.

kronckew · 27th February 2017, 10:09 AM

like many civil war, etc 'portrait' photos, it was likely posed and the photographer arranged the weapons to look good. may even have supplied them just for the photo. his revolver is a bit too far forward too, probably to show it off better. he'd do himself an injury if he tripped or fell off his horse, or dropped to the ground into a prone firing position.

Gonzalo G · 14th May 2017, 09:51 AM

Fer, please excuse me. I never thanked you for your reply. Thank you.
I understand what do you mean, but even in a tourist-oriented market of traditional edged weapons you can find the original spirit of the weapon and the scabbard. I agree with you that Europe was the origin of this industry, but the local solutions and ornamentations to the weapons and scabbards gives a unique style and flavor to them.

Regards

19th December 2008, 10:54 PM	#1
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	Faca da ponta? just picked this one up on ebay (item 140289167600) billed as a 'vintage tobacco cutting knife', it looks more like a faca da ponta to me. no dimensions noted in the description, so i'm hoping it's not a miniature. will let y'all know dimensions when it arrives. anybody have any more info on these?

21st December 2008, 12:47 AM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Gonzalo I confess i don't have enough 'luggage' to discuss that. I concluded my example was Brazilian after several discussions. Actually i took some time to find out, as the motto on the blade sounded French (Enfin), which has misguided me a lot. Eventualy the other day i saw a similar specimen in a street fair, with a different motto, which made me conclude this is current stuff and tourist orientated. I once spotted a Brazilian web site tagging similar items as faca de ponta. I dare to say that this scabbard type has a South American touch, but that is very contingent, as such South American tendences originated from here in the Peninsula. Fernando Attached Images

22nd December 2008, 03:10 PM	#5
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	the faca has arrived, nice little knife, single edged 16 cm. off-centre blade and an 8 cm. false edge, 1.8 cm. wide at grip, 2.8 mm. thick at the small 1.4 cm. x 1 mm circular german silver guard. the blade is inscribed 'PILOTO' in a 1 cm. high serif font. i gather this may be the name of a tobacco company in brasil that may have had these made as commemoratives, possibly why the seller referred to it as a tobacco cutting knife. it does appear to be nickle plated as noted above. the grip, in alternating sections of german siver and a tan/custard colored plastic is 9.5 cm. the tang goes thru a final german silver rounded nut with annular grooves, where it is peened. the final domed shape metal section covering a hemisphere of the final plastic ball pommel section is inscribed with a dotted flower pattern and appears to be patinated brass. the scabbard is leather with a leather chape and a throat section sewn over it with a downward protruding tongue to act as a belt stop. Last edited by kronckew; 22nd December 2008 at 03:24 PM.

27th February 2017, 04:01 AM	#7
machinist Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 93	Here is a fellow with a similar knife. The worn-in-front style seems dangerous to me. Attached Images

20th December 2008, 01:10 AM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Wayne I had one of these; sold it the other day. Its blade will certainly mesure 20 centimeters; probably nickel plated. You're right in that it is a version of (Brazilian) faca de ponta. The handle is made of German silver and some plastic material. The sheath would be very well made and stitched, although a commercial item, i would say. Fernando

21st December 2008, 12:10 AM	#3
Gonzalo G Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Nothern Mexico Posts: 458	Fernando, can you identify this scabbard style of construction as portuguese or Brazilian? Thank you. Regards Gonzalo

26th February 2017, 08:07 PM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	'piloto' appears to be a type of south american tobacco used in premium cigars.

27th February 2017, 10:09 AM	#8
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	like many civil war, etc 'portrait' photos, it was likely posed and the photographer arranged the weapons to look good. may even have supplied them just for the photo. his revolver is a bit too far forward too, probably to show it off better. he'd do himself an injury if he tripped or fell off his horse, or dropped to the ground into a prone firing position.

14th May 2017, 09:51 AM	#9
Gonzalo G Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Nothern Mexico Posts: 458	Fer, please excuse me. I never thanked you for your reply. Thank you. I understand what do you mean, but even in a tourist-oriented market of traditional edged weapons you can find the original spirit of the weapon and the scabbard. I agree with you that Europe was the origin of this industry, but the local solutions and ornamentations to the weapons and scabbards gives a unique style and flavor to them. Regards