Assistance please

A. G. Maisey · 11th May 2017, 01:32 PM

A hunting dagger Marius?

Yes, maybe. Italian I can accept, I've always thought Italian or Spanish, and it seems others agree, but I would have thought a hunting dagger would have a guard to prevent the hand slipping down onto the blade, this one is quite robust, but it seems to be tailor-made to slip under a jacket. It is pretty nice, I've had it for nearly 40 years, totally outside my field, but I couldn't resist it. Wasn't real cheap either. I used to eat lentils quite a lot in my younger collecting days. You can live for very extended periods on lentils and rice if you need to.

The other one I tend more towards Spanish, I reckon that the scabbard was covered in red velvet when it was new. Impossible now to know what the covering was, but it looks and feels like it might have been red velvet. It is quite a refined piece in the hand, but the blade was made by welding and doubling, you could not call it damascus, but there are weld indications all through it.

mariusgmioc · 11th May 2017, 01:54 PM

Yep! Hunting dagger. It is the widening of the blade relative to the hilt that prevents the hand fom sliping over the blade. Czerny's has a couple on sale in their upcoming auction (lots 324, 326, 328 / auction 71) so you can check their website also. Yet, many times I found mistakes on their website, so it definitely cannot be taken as reference.

But let us wait and see what others have to say.

PS: Had lentils today.

fernando · 11th May 2017, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Yep! Hunting dagger. It is the widening of the blade relative to the hilt that prevents the hand fom sliping over the blade. Czerny's has a couple on sale in their upcoming auction (lots 324, 326, 328 / auction 71) so you can check their website also. Yet, many times I found mistakes on their website, so it definitely cannot be taken as reference...

Yes, indeed they call them hunting knives (coltello da cacia) whether that is just an allegory or an attribution to practical utility.

Sajen · 11th May 2017, 09:32 PM

Hello Alan,

the first one I've seen described as Genovese dagger, see for example here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=genovese
The other one could be from Spain IMVHO.

Regards,
Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 12th May 2017, 05:40 AM

Thank you for your opinions gentlemen.

I'll accept hunting dagger, but it really seems more suited to something other than that, I have hunted all my life, including chasing wild pigs on foot, and killing them with spears and bayonets, and I just cannot understand how a dagger like this could be used to kill game. I guess you could finish off something that was already down, maybe drive it through an ear, or an eye --- provided the animal didn't kick around too much, but this is a purely stabbing implement, you couldn't do the quick , kind thing and cut its throat.

I'll try to have a look at Czerny's when I get a chance, Marius, in fact I've never visited their site.

kronckew · 12th May 2017, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Thank you for your opinions gentlemen.

I'll accept hunting dagger, but it really seems more suited to something other than that, I have hunted all my life, including chasing wild pigs on foot, and killing them with spears and bayonets, and I just cannot understand how a dagger like this could be used to kill game. I guess you could finish off something that was already down, maybe drive it through an ear, or an eye --- provided the animal didn't kick around too much, but this is a purely stabbing implement, you couldn't do the quick , kind thing and cut its throat.

...

i'd bet that a well decorated 'hunting' sword or dagger/knife would be carried by a noble as part of his 'hunting' outfit, and who would have retainers and servants to do the actual dirty work. a more active noble who wanted to engage in DIY might carry or borrow a more useful version from someone if he wanted to actually insert it into an animal.

he wouldn't want to have any actual wear on his, that would be so declasse. the bottom one with the patinated real blade might fill that role, nice fancy handle for his more senior retainers to show his lord can afford to equip them nicely, but a functional blade for someone who would be required to actually use it.

those of a more sensitive nature or under 18 please look away now.

.

fernando · 12th May 2017, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

i'd bet that a well decorated 'hunting' sword or dagger/knife would be carried by a noble as part of his 'hunting' outfit, and who would have retainers and servants to do the actual dirty work...

Fully agreed, Waine; my previous pointing out the allegoric purpose wasn't properly a well expressed adjective

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

... those of a more sensitive nature or under 18 please look away now...

Or perhaps a better idea would be leaving such 'descriptive & illustrated' part for more specialized venues on the subject, don't you think

.

11th May 2017, 01:32 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	A hunting dagger Marius? Yes, maybe. Italian I can accept, I've always thought Italian or Spanish, and it seems others agree, but I would have thought a hunting dagger would have a guard to prevent the hand slipping down onto the blade, this one is quite robust, but it seems to be tailor-made to slip under a jacket. It is pretty nice, I've had it for nearly 40 years, totally outside my field, but I couldn't resist it. Wasn't real cheap either. I used to eat lentils quite a lot in my younger collecting days. You can live for very extended periods on lentils and rice if you need to. The other one I tend more towards Spanish, I reckon that the scabbard was covered in red velvet when it was new. Impossible now to know what the covering was, but it looks and feels like it might have been red velvet. It is quite a refined piece in the hand, but the blade was made by welding and doubling, you could not call it damascus, but there are weld indications all through it.

11th May 2017, 01:54 PM	#2
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,911	Yep! Hunting dagger. It is the widening of the blade relative to the hilt that prevents the hand fom sliping over the blade. Czerny's has a couple on sale in their upcoming auction (lots 324, 326, 328 / auction 71) so you can check their website also. Yet, many times I found mistakes on their website, so it definitely cannot be taken as reference. But let us wait and see what others have to say. PS: Had lentils today.

11th May 2017, 09:32 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,212	Hello Alan, the first one I've seen described as Genovese dagger, see for example here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=genovese The other one could be from Spain IMVHO. Regards, Detlef

12th May 2017, 05:40 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Thank you for your opinions gentlemen. I'll accept hunting dagger, but it really seems more suited to something other than that, I have hunted all my life, including chasing wild pigs on foot, and killing them with spears and bayonets, and I just cannot understand how a dagger like this could be used to kill game. I guess you could finish off something that was already down, maybe drive it through an ear, or an eye --- provided the animal didn't kick around too much, but this is a purely stabbing implement, you couldn't do the quick , kind thing and cut its throat. I'll try to have a look at Czerny's when I get a chance, Marius, in fact I've never visited their site.