Islamic Text Found in a swordhandle

ariel · 7th March 2006, 11:59 AM

John Crosby posted this article
http://home.comcast.net/~jtcrosby/Aceh.html
about Acehnese swords and thanked me for the contribution (similarity between Hulu Meu Apet and Gulabhati handles).
I have published some papers in my life and have been cited quite a lot, but I was never as proud as when I saw John's acknowledgement!!!!!
My wife said I wore a silly grin on my face for a week.

Andrew · 7th March 2006, 01:25 PM

That article of John's is great (even with Ariel's contributions

).

Spunjer · 7th March 2006, 01:57 PM

dajak,
nice sword! was this a recent acquisition? in all accounts, it's still a nice looking sword.

Alam Shah · 7th March 2006, 02:01 PM

This is indeed a talisman, (tangkal or azimat/zimat or jimat). This type of talisman, once opened, the "strength" is gone. The azimat is 'void'.

The portion between the 2 stars is known as "Khatimus Sulaiman". It's purpose is to protect it's wearer against "black magic" and evil spirits (god's willing).

It is a combination of a number of azimats mainly for protection against supernatural elements.

Dajak · 7th March 2006, 02:42 PM

Hi this sword I did get the 5 off march this year the paper was openend in 1941 so the power gone for a long time

Nice to read this Ian that makes that the scabbard is the way it has to be
and not influenze off the dutch

The scabbards for the peudeueng peusangan with a hulu meu apet are usually wood covered with leather. Some are adorned with silver banding . Scabbards for a peudeueng peusangan with a hulu tumpang beunteung and the peudeueng panjang are of wood and can be found both ornate and plain

RhysMichael · 8th March 2006, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dajak

Hi this sword I did get the 5 off march this year the paper was openend in 1941 so the power gone for a long time

Nice to read this Ian that makes that the scabbard is the way it has to be
and not influenze off the dutch

The scabbards for the peudeueng peusangan with a hulu meu apet are usually wood covered with leather. Some are adorned with silver banding . Scabbards for a peudeueng peusangan with a hulu tumpang beunteung and the peudeueng panjang are of wood and can be found both ornate and plain

I was re-reading this thread and noitced this part. Ian may well still be correct on the influence in the scabbard. The Dutch were in that area long before the Dutch-Atjeh war. At least as early as the 17th century and many say before that though Portugal was the power in that area before then if I have it right( Portugal became a power in that area in the beginning of the 16th century). So, although the swords are seen with this type of scabbard in Atjeh it may well still be due to a Dutch or Portuguese influence. It could also be due to the Indian influence that effected the hilt. I truely do not know. I have yet to find anyone that has handled an indian sword with a gulabhati handle. The sheath may stem from those swords. I wish it was easier to get information from the museums in Atjeh, India or even the KIT. But like most museums thier funding and therefore thier staff to do such research is limited.

Dajak · 8th March 2006, 06:25 AM

Hi John a portugese influence or dutch would not only on the scabbard but also on the sword
the dutch klewang was made after the dutch soldiers have to get in touch with the pedeuang .

A very nice book is Marchaussee in Atjeh to read about the war overthere

Dutch scabbards (From that period) are mostly from metal not from leather and wood like some Indian weapons

The real war starting in atjeh is probably the that they killed dutch people in september 1811 and gouverment overthere
The Dutch used this as an excuse to send an expedition to Palembang ( Raffles luitenatant-gouveneur van Java bij this time April 1812)
to get Banka in his hands

In 19 aug 1816 the british Flag was changed to the Dutch and we get on may
22 1819 Padang in our hands

The expediton against Palembang did start in 1821

Raja Muda · 9th March 2006, 10:05 AM

Hi Dajak,

Thanks for the enlarged pictures of the tangkal azimat. I believe it contains snatches from Quranic verses. But what I find most interesting is the second piece from the top, as the inscription below the two stars are the names of the Seven Sleepers, whom I believe figures in the Quranic chapter Surah Al-Kahfi, as well as Byzantinian Christian traditions.

As the story goes, they were a group of young men who were persecuted for their early Christian? beliefs and escaped to a cave. They fell asleep and awoke a few hundred years later, though they thought they've just spent a night in the cave. One of the members went to the nearest town to purchase food and amazed the locals since the money he carried was stamped with the face of a long dead monarch, who persecuted the monotheist believers a few hundred years ago.

I'm not sure what the magical/spiritual significance the story holds for the sword. Maybe someone can make the connections.

7th March 2006, 02:01 PM	#4
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	The stars portion... This is indeed a talisman, (tangkal or azimat/zimat or jimat). This type of talisman, once opened, the "strength" is gone. The azimat is 'void'. The portion between the 2 stars is known as "Khatimus Sulaiman". It's purpose is to protect it's wearer against "black magic" and evil spirits (god's willing). It is a combination of a number of azimats mainly for protection against supernatural elements. Last edited by Alam Shah; 7th March 2006 at 02:16 PM.

7th March 2006, 02:42 PM	#5
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi this sword I did get the 5 off march this year the paper was openend in 1941 so the power gone for a long time Nice to read this Ian that makes that the scabbard is the way it has to be and not influenze off the dutch The scabbards for the peudeueng peusangan with a hulu meu apet are usually wood covered with leather. Some are adorned with silver banding . Scabbards for a peudeueng peusangan with a hulu tumpang beunteung and the peudeueng panjang are of wood and can be found both ornate and plain Last edited by Dajak; 7th March 2006 at 03:03 PM.

9th March 2006, 10:05 AM	#8
Raja Muda Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 100	Contents of Azimat Hi Dajak, Thanks for the enlarged pictures of the tangkal azimat. I believe it contains snatches from Quranic verses. But what I find most interesting is the second piece from the top, as the inscription below the two stars are the names of the Seven Sleepers, whom I believe figures in the Quranic chapter Surah Al-Kahfi, as well as Byzantinian Christian traditions. As the story goes, they were a group of young men who were persecuted for their early Christian? beliefs and escaped to a cave. They fell asleep and awoke a few hundred years later, though they thought they've just spent a night in the cave. One of the members went to the nearest town to purchase food and amazed the locals since the money he carried was stamped with the face of a long dead monarch, who persecuted the monotheist believers a few hundred years ago. I'm not sure what the magical/spiritual significance the story holds for the sword. Maybe someone can make the connections.

7th March 2006, 11:59 AM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	John Crosby posted this article http://home.comcast.net/~jtcrosby/Aceh.html about Acehnese swords and thanked me for the contribution (similarity between Hulu Meu Apet and Gulabhati handles). I have published some papers in my life and have been cited quite a lot, but I was never as proud as when I saw John's acknowledgement!!!!! My wife said I wore a silly grin on my face for a week.

7th March 2006, 01:25 PM	#2
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	That article of John's is great (even with Ariel's contributions ).

7th March 2006, 01:57 PM	#3
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	dajak, nice sword! was this a recent acquisition? in all accounts, it's still a nice looking sword.

8th March 2006, 06:25 AM	#7
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi John a portugese influence or dutch would not only on the scabbard but also on the sword the dutch klewang was made after the dutch soldiers have to get in touch with the pedeuang . A very nice book is Marchaussee in Atjeh to read about the war overthere Dutch scabbards (From that period) are mostly from metal not from leather and wood like some Indian weapons The real war starting in atjeh is probably the that they killed dutch people in september 1811 and gouverment overthere The Dutch used this as an excuse to send an expedition to Palembang ( Raffles luitenatant-gouveneur van Java bij this time April 1812) to get Banka in his hands In 19 aug 1816 the british Flag was changed to the Dutch and we get on may 22 1819 Padang in our hands The expediton against Palembang did start in 1821