Planning to make a wrongko

Rick · 26th April 2017, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

You must have a mind like a steel trap.

Albeit a somewhat corroded and old one, Alan.

Lemmy made some interesting posts.

I saw a bit of a parallel with our aspiring scabbard maker.

A. G. Maisey · 26th April 2017, 02:48 AM

Yeah, I speed read the text and as soon as I get a chance I'll go back and read it properly.

Looks like there was some good stuff in it.

Johan van Zyl · 26th April 2017, 11:14 AM

In reply to David, let me see if I can post a pic or two of my incomplete project. Looks awful in this unkempt state! I promise it will look better after much elbow grease and TLC. Of course, as always, I welcome helpful hints and even flak. You will see I opted to go for the whole wrongko and not just the gambar and buntut.

In reply to Alan, I've always wondered: if I had the financial means to really treat myself when it comes to my edged weapons collection, would I have gone for specialisation or would I have stuck to my current mode of accumulating an interesting but varied assortment of historical weapons? I've never had enough funds to go to town as I would like, (who has??) what with kids at varsity and now grandchildren to help support. So, how such a collection, and my inclination towards it, would have ended up, I cannot tell. Your development as a young collector coincides in certain respects with mine, but the big difference is that in my locality I do not have access to keris items. The two I did fortunately get hold of, that I've reported on, came as a fluke not repeatable. Thinking back, I realise that I've owned, seen, handled, experienced such a wide variety of historical weapons of all kinds that I feel satisfied. I really believe the two extremes (going all-out in a specialised direction and accumulating a wide variety) both have their merits and appeal.

David, my files seem to be too big to attach. Let me see if I can adjust them.

Johan van Zyl · 26th April 2017, 11:37 AM

I apologise if the images are poor!

A. G. Maisey · 26th April 2017, 01:42 PM

Yes Johan, most people act in the way they are able to act, and that ability to act is dictated by a number of factors, most of which cannot be controlled.

The work you've done so far has got off to a good start.

Is the gandar made in two pieces and glued, or did you work out some way to inlet the blade in the absence of the specific tool used for this? If you did do it as one piece, I'd appreciate it if you let us know how.

The best glue to use for any scabbard is in my opinion Araldite, or some other two part epoxy glue. Normal woodworking glues can set up rust in a blade if they contact it, epoxy adhesives are like plastic and do not cause rust.

Johan van Zyl · 27th April 2017, 08:08 AM

Thank you once again for your reply; I think we are and have been in agreement. Considering your questions, I am truly hesitant to reply. I am feeling like a Catholic parishioner having to appear before the priest and muttering: "Father, I have sinned!" Or like the time I had to do an oral in front of three Professors. The questions were all about this huge textbook on animal physiology, the contents of which I had virtually memorised. The first question took me by surprise: "Who wrote the book?"

I hereby shamefacedly admit (don't worry; I'm not too serious) that I took two pieces of teak-type wood for the gandar, marked out the outline of the blade on each of them and slowly and carefully made the required hollow with an angle grinder. Every now and then I took the blade and checked if the hollow was deep enough or had the required shape. I was quite surprised that the angle grinder idea worked so well; all it required was a firm, steady hand. I used this same technique with the gambar and it encouraged me that I could actually pull the job off satisfactorilly.

Yes, I did use wood glue; however, the Bugis keris is to be stored outside of its scabbard. (I've always had this thing about storing edged weapons outside of their scabbards.) I once made a storage case for a pristine Luger pistol, using wood glue, and found to my dismay that a light sheen of fine rust had developed within a week. Happily there was no lasting damage and after I aired the box for a few weeks, the problem never came back.

My biggest challenge lies ahead: bringing about the proper dimensions to the gambar. I'm still poring over your description: "a very gentle concave surface from the vertical groove towards the back, the surface of the wrongko in front of the groove is curved to blend into the rounded front". As David put it: "...to make the proportions and nuances as close to acceptable as possible". I must search images taken at an angle, so I can view these necessary nuances. I thank you all once again for your comments.

A. G. Maisey · 27th April 2017, 11:31 AM

Johan, there is nothing at all wrong with a gandar made in two pieces and glued down the sides. It is a quite legitimate way to make a gandar. Yes, one piece , no glue is better, but then again, a complete scabbard, gandar + gambar from a single piece of wood with the wood grain optimised is better again. I doubt that there is anybody working in Jawa now who can do this satisfactorily.

You are very wise with your storage of blades outside scabbards. I've preached this for years. Not many people listen to me. Its more fun to have a "battle-ready , razor sharp weapon to end life" (this is an actual quote from correspondence) hanging on the wall.

I actually use a plastic sleeve over my blades, after oiling. Keris kept in this way have gone for years with no attention at all, and have not shown a skerrick of rust.

I regret I cannot approve of the use of electric tools in fine work, either wood or metal.

Yes, I know:- I'm a dinosaur.

The noise alone interferes with the active meditation that any sort of work of this type should engender. As one of my mentors once said of such noise: "suaranya mengganggu kebatinan aku". (if you use an online translator you'll find "suara" = "voice" but it is also used for the noise, ie "voice" of other things, bells, machinery etc.)

26th April 2017, 11:37 AM	#4
Johan van Zyl Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: I live in Gordon's Bay, a village in the Western Cape Province in South Africa. Posts: 126	I apologise if the images are poor! Attached Images

26th April 2017, 01:42 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	Yes Johan, most people act in the way they are able to act, and that ability to act is dictated by a number of factors, most of which cannot be controlled. The work you've done so far has got off to a good start. Is the gandar made in two pieces and glued, or did you work out some way to inlet the blade in the absence of the specific tool used for this? If you did do it as one piece, I'd appreciate it if you let us know how. The best glue to use for any scabbard is in my opinion Araldite, or some other two part epoxy glue. Normal woodworking glues can set up rust in a blade if they contact it, epoxy adhesives are like plastic and do not cause rust. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 26th April 2017 at 02:01 PM.

26th April 2017, 02:48 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	Yeah, I speed read the text and as soon as I get a chance I'll go back and read it properly. Looks like there was some good stuff in it.

26th April 2017, 11:14 AM	#3
Johan van Zyl Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: I live in Gordon's Bay, a village in the Western Cape Province in South Africa. Posts: 126	In reply to David, let me see if I can post a pic or two of my incomplete project. Looks awful in this unkempt state! I promise it will look better after much elbow grease and TLC. Of course, as always, I welcome helpful hints and even flak. You will see I opted to go for the whole wrongko and not just the gambar and buntut. In reply to Alan, I've always wondered: if I had the financial means to really treat myself when it comes to my edged weapons collection, would I have gone for specialisation or would I have stuck to my current mode of accumulating an interesting but varied assortment of historical weapons? I've never had enough funds to go to town as I would like, (who has??) what with kids at varsity and now grandchildren to help support. So, how such a collection, and my inclination towards it, would have ended up, I cannot tell. Your development as a young collector coincides in certain respects with mine, but the big difference is that in my locality I do not have access to keris items. The two I did fortunately get hold of, that I've reported on, came as a fluke not repeatable. Thinking back, I realise that I've owned, seen, handled, experienced such a wide variety of historical weapons of all kinds that I feel satisfied. I really believe the two extremes (going all-out in a specialised direction and accumulating a wide variety) both have their merits and appeal. David, my files seem to be too big to attach. Let me see if I can adjust them.

27th April 2017, 08:08 AM	#6
Johan van Zyl Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: I live in Gordon's Bay, a village in the Western Cape Province in South Africa. Posts: 126	Thank you once again for your reply; I think we are and have been in agreement. Considering your questions, I am truly hesitant to reply. I am feeling like a Catholic parishioner having to appear before the priest and muttering: "Father, I have sinned!" Or like the time I had to do an oral in front of three Professors. The questions were all about this huge textbook on animal physiology, the contents of which I had virtually memorised. The first question took me by surprise: "Who wrote the book?" I hereby shamefacedly admit (don't worry; I'm not too serious) that I took two pieces of teak-type wood for the gandar, marked out the outline of the blade on each of them and slowly and carefully made the required hollow with an angle grinder. Every now and then I took the blade and checked if the hollow was deep enough or had the required shape. I was quite surprised that the angle grinder idea worked so well; all it required was a firm, steady hand. I used this same technique with the gambar and it encouraged me that I could actually pull the job off satisfactorilly. Yes, I did use wood glue; however, the Bugis keris is to be stored outside of its scabbard. (I've always had this thing about storing edged weapons outside of their scabbards.) I once made a storage case for a pristine Luger pistol, using wood glue, and found to my dismay that a light sheen of fine rust had developed within a week. Happily there was no lasting damage and after I aired the box for a few weeks, the problem never came back. My biggest challenge lies ahead: bringing about the proper dimensions to the gambar. I'm still poring over your description: "a very gentle concave surface from the vertical groove towards the back, the surface of the wrongko in front of the groove is curved to blend into the rounded front". As David put it: "...to make the proportions and nuances as close to acceptable as possible". I must search images taken at an angle, so I can view these necessary nuances. I thank you all once again for your comments.

27th April 2017, 11:31 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	Johan, there is nothing at all wrong with a gandar made in two pieces and glued down the sides. It is a quite legitimate way to make a gandar. Yes, one piece , no glue is better, but then again, a complete scabbard, gandar + gambar from a single piece of wood with the wood grain optimised is better again. I doubt that there is anybody working in Jawa now who can do this satisfactorily. You are very wise with your storage of blades outside scabbards. I've preached this for years. Not many people listen to me. Its more fun to have a "battle-ready , razor sharp weapon to end life" (this is an actual quote from correspondence) hanging on the wall. I actually use a plastic sleeve over my blades, after oiling. Keris kept in this way have gone for years with no attention at all, and have not shown a skerrick of rust. I regret I cannot approve of the use of electric tools in fine work, either wood or metal. Yes, I know:- I'm a dinosaur. The noise alone interferes with the active meditation that any sort of work of this type should engender. As one of my mentors once said of such noise: "suaranya mengganggu kebatinan aku". (if you use an online translator you'll find "suara" = "voice" but it is also used for the noise, ie "voice" of other things, bells, machinery etc.)