chilanum/ kanjar daggers Fakes ? Dates ?

francantolin · 24th April 2017, 06:57 PM

confusion with the pictures:

the second is the first ( & vice-versa !)

mariusgmioc · 24th April 2017, 07:17 PM

Very hard to say from the photos you posted.

The koftgary is definitely recent but the dagger can be older... much older. It is a rather frequent practice to apply koftgari on antique but otherwise mundane knives to make them more saleable. But then again, this looks to be genuine koftgari, and well made. So I don't think being recent makes it less genuine/valuable.

Other than that, the example looks good and made in the traditional way. The chiseld blade is almost unseen in recent production. So I don't think it is a fake. Early 20th century seems plausible to me albeit the blade can be significanly older.

Would definitely like it for my collection.

The recent scabbard has absolutely no relevance for assesing the blade but it is a nice extra.

PS: I managed to download and open the pdf file. Now that appears to be a recent dagger with a pattern welded and NOT WOOTZ blade. So, if the seller lies about this, ho much can you trust the rest? But then maybe I am wrong ...

francantolin · 24th April 2017, 08:01 PM

Hello Marius,

thank you,
I'll look about what you call ''pattern welded''
here another picture given by the seller of the ''pdf'' dagger- chilanum,

the hilt was complete on this picture but now it's damaged a little, that's why the seller makes a low price.

Do you think it's not a bone hilt ? Maybe Ivory

or plastic ? ? !!!!! ....

Rick · 24th April 2017, 09:40 PM

If those pictures are all you have to go by; speaking for myself I would pass.

About the broken tip of the knucklebow; I thought those were generally made of steel, in which case it would be quite a hard thing to break.

Is there a return guarantee?

Ian · 25th April 2017, 12:29 AM

Be cautious here. Can you handle these or are they being sold to you via the pictures? I would not buy them myself if only the pictures are available.

Ian.

mariusgmioc · 25th April 2017, 03:44 AM

It is as Rick said.

The knucklebow is supposed to serve as a protection for the fingers they are normally made of steel in one piece with th cross-guard and the hilt.

Whether bone or plastic, the second one is fake.

francantolin · 25th April 2017, 06:26 AM

Ok thanks all,

For the ''bone'' hilt kanjar-chilanum,
I was comparing with old ''precious'' items with jade, ivory hilt...

But indeed never saw a chilanum hilt model not made of steel or metal.

I'll look for return guarantee cause I can't handle it !

24th April 2017, 07:17 PM	#2
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,911	Very hard to say from the photos you posted. The koftgary is definitely recent but the dagger can be older... much older. It is a rather frequent practice to apply koftgari on antique but otherwise mundane knives to make them more saleable. But then again, this looks to be genuine koftgari, and well made. So I don't think being recent makes it less genuine/valuable. Other than that, the example looks good and made in the traditional way. The chiseld blade is almost unseen in recent production. So I don't think it is a fake. Early 20th century seems plausible to me albeit the blade can be significanly older. Would definitely like it for my collection. The recent scabbard has absolutely no relevance for assesing the blade but it is a nice extra. PS: I managed to download and open the pdf file. Now that appears to be a recent dagger with a pattern welded and NOT WOOTZ blade. So, if the seller lies about this, ho much can you trust the rest? But then maybe I am wrong ... Last edited by mariusgmioc; 24th April 2017 at 07:46 PM.

24th April 2017, 08:01 PM	#3
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 905	Hello Marius, thank you, I'll look about what you call ''pattern welded'' here another picture given by the seller of the ''pdf'' dagger- chilanum, the hilt was complete on this picture but now it's damaged a little, that's why the seller makes a low price. Do you think it's not a bone hilt ? Maybe Ivory or plastic ? ? !!!!! .... Attached Images

24th April 2017, 09:40 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	If those pictures are all you have to go by; speaking for myself I would pass. About the broken tip of the knucklebow; I thought those were generally made of steel, in which case it would be quite a hard thing to break. Is there a return guarantee?

25th April 2017, 12:29 AM	#5
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,398	Be cautious here. Can you handle these or are they being sold to you via the pictures? I would not buy them myself if only the pictures are available. Ian.

25th April 2017, 03:44 AM	#6
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,911	It is as Rick said. The knucklebow is supposed to serve as a protection for the fingers they are normally made of steel in one piece with th cross-guard and the hilt. Whether bone or plastic, the second one is fake.

25th April 2017, 06:26 AM	#7
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 905	Ok thanks all, For the ''bone'' hilt kanjar-chilanum, I was comparing with old ''precious'' items with jade, ivory hilt... But indeed never saw a chilanum hilt model not made of steel or metal. I'll look for return guarantee cause I can't handle it !