Bagobo, Blaan ? Your expertise please

Marbel · 17th April 2017, 07:15 PM

Yes Battara, thanks. We were typing at the same time.

The scabbard is certainly not a typical Bagobo design at all. Mandaya is a good call. They're neighbors. In general it just looks like a working man's scabbard.

Thanks again. Any thoughts on age?

Ian · 18th April 2017, 12:57 AM

Hi marbel:

I agree with battara. The scabbard is hard to place. Sorry I can't be more helpful on this one.

You are fortunate to have many Tboli blades. They are often well made swords and knives, and the brass/bronze hilts can be real works of art. I understand the best hilts are designed by women who carve the wax molds, and this seems to be a specific craft that has been passed down for many decades.

Ian.

Battara · 18th April 2017, 03:20 AM

Ian that's why I move away from T'boli on this hilt.

Marbel · 18th April 2017, 04:14 PM

Ian,

You are indeed correct on your comment about Tboli women participating in the creation of their swords, especially in the old days. While the men will work on the blades and the basic shape of the hilts (base wax), women would create the more intricate designs in wax for the finished mold. They'd often use small strings of copper wire to form tiny imprints into the main wax.

Thanks again.

Battara · 18th April 2017, 11:19 PM

Marbel, for a metalsmith like me, this information is of great interest and help. I was not aware.

Maraming Salamat!

Ian · 19th April 2017, 12:56 AM

Marbel, thanks for the information about how these hilts were decorated. Some time ago while in southern Mindanao I had the opportunity to visit a Tboli smith. His tools were fairly standard for a village smith although his forge had a western style bellows rather than a more traditional type. His mother was involved with the making of hilts (he had no sisters and was unmarried) but I did not see her at work. I did see some of her tools, many of which were fine iron needles, and she had a few pieces of well worn paper with hand drawn designs to work from. Unfortunately, they were very superstitious people who did not allow me to photograph them or their home. I don't recall seeing the copper wire forms that you mention, but these could have been in a number of small containers lying on the floor next to the low table where she worked.

Have you visited Mindanao? You seem to know quite a lot about weapons of the area.

Ian.

Marbel · 19th April 2017, 01:32 AM

Hi Ian,

Great information and I'm very glad to hear that you've had the opportunity to visit the Tboli. They are a special people. I've visited Mindanao several times, first in 1984 and most recently in April 2016. I've also been fortunate enough to visit the Blaan as well during my last trip. While I collect Tboli blades (and other lumad weapons to a lesser degree), my collection encompasses all aspects of Tboli art and artifacts. The largest part of my collection is textiles. The woven tnalak cloth and Tboli clothing and costume. Again, to a somewhat lesser degree I own textiles from the Blaan, Bagobo, Tagakaolo, Mandaya and other nearby groups. As you know, their costume and adornment include some other beautiful brass items - amazing belts, anklets and bracelets, bells of all sorts and some betel boxes. The brasscasters are true artists with longstanding traditions. I could go on and on about the Tboli, but I fear I'm veering a bit off topic. I'd be happy to chat with anyone off-line if there is an interest.

A bit more on topic. There are some very informative plates documenting Lumad weaponry within many of the old field study books written on Mindanao in the early 20th century. Two that come to mind are Faye Cooper Cole's "The Wild Tribes of Davao District, Mindanao" (1913) and Herbert Krieger's "The Collection of Primitive Weapons and Armour of the Philippine Islands in the United States National Museum" (1926). John Garvan's "The Manobos of Mindanao" (1929) contains some nice reference photos as well.

All the best,
Craig

18th April 2017, 04:14 PM	#4
Marbel Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 67	Ian, You are indeed correct on your comment about Tboli women participating in the creation of their swords, especially in the old days. While the men will work on the blades and the basic shape of the hilts (base wax), women would create the more intricate designs in wax for the finished mold. They'd often use small strings of copper wire to form tiny imprints into the main wax. Thanks again. Attached Images

17th April 2017, 07:15 PM	#1
Marbel Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 67	Yes Battara, thanks. We were typing at the same time. The scabbard is certainly not a typical Bagobo design at all. Mandaya is a good call. They're neighbors. In general it just looks like a working man's scabbard. Thanks again. Any thoughts on age?

18th April 2017, 12:57 AM	#2
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,361	Hi marbel: I agree with battara. The scabbard is hard to place. Sorry I can't be more helpful on this one. You are fortunate to have many Tboli blades. They are often well made swords and knives, and the brass/bronze hilts can be real works of art. I understand the best hilts are designed by women who carve the wax molds, and this seems to be a specific craft that has been passed down for many decades. Ian.

18th April 2017, 03:20 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Ian that's why I move away from T'boli on this hilt.

18th April 2017, 11:19 PM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Marbel, for a metalsmith like me, this information is of great interest and help. I was not aware. Maraming Salamat!

19th April 2017, 12:56 AM	#6
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,361	Marbel, thanks for the information about how these hilts were decorated. Some time ago while in southern Mindanao I had the opportunity to visit a Tboli smith. His tools were fairly standard for a village smith although his forge had a western style bellows rather than a more traditional type. His mother was involved with the making of hilts (he had no sisters and was unmarried) but I did not see her at work. I did see some of her tools, many of which were fine iron needles, and she had a few pieces of well worn paper with hand drawn designs to work from. Unfortunately, they were very superstitious people who did not allow me to photograph them or their home. I don't recall seeing the copper wire forms that you mention, but these could have been in a number of small containers lying on the floor next to the low table where she worked. Have you visited Mindanao? You seem to know quite a lot about weapons of the area. Ian.

19th April 2017, 01:32 AM	#7
Marbel Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 67	Hi Ian, Great information and I'm very glad to hear that you've had the opportunity to visit the Tboli. They are a special people. I've visited Mindanao several times, first in 1984 and most recently in April 2016. I've also been fortunate enough to visit the Blaan as well during my last trip. While I collect Tboli blades (and other lumad weapons to a lesser degree), my collection encompasses all aspects of Tboli art and artifacts. The largest part of my collection is textiles. The woven tnalak cloth and Tboli clothing and costume. Again, to a somewhat lesser degree I own textiles from the Blaan, Bagobo, Tagakaolo, Mandaya and other nearby groups. As you know, their costume and adornment include some other beautiful brass items - amazing belts, anklets and bracelets, bells of all sorts and some betel boxes. The brasscasters are true artists with longstanding traditions. I could go on and on about the Tboli, but I fear I'm veering a bit off topic. I'd be happy to chat with anyone off-line if there is an interest. A bit more on topic. There are some very informative plates documenting Lumad weaponry within many of the old field study books written on Mindanao in the early 20th century. Two that come to mind are Faye Cooper Cole's "The Wild Tribes of Davao District, Mindanao" (1913) and Herbert Krieger's "The Collection of Primitive Weapons and Armour of the Philippine Islands in the United States National Museum" (1926). John Garvan's "The Manobos of Mindanao" (1929) contains some nice reference photos as well. All the best, Craig