Sboula for Comments

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 9th March 2017, 03:45 PM

The written word can be a very dangerous thing. More so when a fact is put down on paper in a respected publication and allowed to become fact for generations...Perpetration of errors in print, however, are no reason to reel off these, at times, blistering errors as facts in our era; where fortunately here at Forum the case for the incorrect detail on S'boula has been dead and buried many times over and now at last finally it can vanish in the mist of time ...finally...I hope other researchers can show further examples of these often repeated mistakes so we can rid history of these errors..something a book cannot do but for which we can be instrumental in correcting.

Jim McDougall · 9th March 2017, 04:41 PM

Extremely well said Ibrahiim!
In rereading this thread, many of the entries all have made some very astute observations such as reference to the inscription on the blade. This does seem to be a native applied imitation of what was likely one of the 'magical' acrostics or letter groupings which seem to have had possible imbued values other than the letters themselves. These often appeared on various European blades and were on blades described in Oakeshott and others from quite early sword blades, so these woud have been prestigiously regarded indeed.

As also has been noted, many of these s'boula were indeed mounted with bayonets and typically from French colonial sources, well available in these Saharan and Sahelian regions.

Visual assessments of the features and character of weapon forms in determining regional placement are always of course well valued, but often compromised by the well known diffusion of influences and often weapons themselves through trade and other motivational factors. As I have often recalled, as noted by other arms researchers in many cases, weapon forms have no geographic boundaries.
The key is often to determine areas where the preponderance of the form exists, has been recorded and observed in accounts or iconographically in many cases.

TVV · 9th March 2017, 05:18 PM

Jom,

Thank you for a very detailed answer explaining the Moroccan origin of these daggers and the history of their (mis)attribution to other areas in Africa.

A recurring theme through this thread seems to be the concept that many of the sboulas were made from European bayonets. I personally feel that most were either made from European sword blades or forged locally. Given the shape and geometry of sboula blades, I just cant think of many, or even any, bayonets that would fit without having to be reforged. These daggers are quite long, and both I have blades of approximately 21 inches. We can rule out all shorter bayonets, along with all spike bayonets. There were longer bayonets available in the 19th century of course, but the French Chassepot bayonet and other yataghan bayonets had a characteristic curve, and the sboula of course does not. The Gras bayonet has a straight back, but lacks the fuller structure we see on sboula blades, and I have not seen a sboula with a blade of a T-section yet.

I have seen janwi daggers with blades that most definitely started as French bayonets, but the fuller structure and shape of sboulas to me at least suggests sword blades (or local imitation thereof) and not bayonets.

Sincerely,
Teodor

ariel · 9th March 2017, 05:48 PM

Berbers are spread from Tunisia to Mali.
They view themselves as a nation separate from the Arabs and assert they are the native inhabitants of the area and that their ancestors were conquered by the Arabs and forcibly converted to Islam, to which they do not wish to belong.
They call themselves Amazigh. Their national hero is Queen Kahina, a contemporary of Muhammed, who managed to stall Arab advance and maintain an independent Berber state for 5 years.

Berbers are largely separated by clans concentrated roughly within different North African states. This probably explains the differences between their contemporary ethnic weapons. The sticky point in this explanation is the fact that we do not have examples of ancient Berber weapons, just the 19 century at the earliest. By that time, external influences, - Spanish, French, Italian and Ottoman,- likely obscured the inherent patterns and we have to resign ourselves to the fact that the original weapons of the Berbers will never be known to us.

9th March 2017, 03:45 PM	#1
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	THE MOROCCAN S'BOULA. The written word can be a very dangerous thing. More so when a fact is put down on paper in a respected publication and allowed to become fact for generations...Perpetration of errors in print, however, are no reason to reel off these, at times, blistering errors as facts in our era; where fortunately here at Forum the case for the incorrect detail on S'boula has been dead and buried many times over and now at last finally it can vanish in the mist of time ...finally...I hope other researchers can show further examples of these often repeated mistakes so we can rid history of these errors..something a book cannot do but for which we can be instrumental in correcting.

9th March 2017, 04:41 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,191	Extremely well said Ibrahiim! In rereading this thread, many of the entries all have made some very astute observations such as reference to the inscription on the blade. This does seem to be a native applied imitation of what was likely one of the 'magical' acrostics or letter groupings which seem to have had possible imbued values other than the letters themselves. These often appeared on various European blades and were on blades described in Oakeshott and others from quite early sword blades, so these woud have been prestigiously regarded indeed. As also has been noted, many of these s'boula were indeed mounted with bayonets and typically from French colonial sources, well available in these Saharan and Sahelian regions. Visual assessments of the features and character of weapon forms in determining regional placement are always of course well valued, but often compromised by the well known diffusion of influences and often weapons themselves through trade and other motivational factors. As I have often recalled, as noted by other arms researchers in many cases, weapon forms have no geographic boundaries. The key is often to determine areas where the preponderance of the form exists, has been recorded and observed in accounts or iconographically in many cases.

9th March 2017, 05:18 PM	#3
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,660	Jom, Thank you for a very detailed answer explaining the Moroccan origin of these daggers and the history of their (mis)attribution to other areas in Africa. A recurring theme through this thread seems to be the concept that many of the sboulas were made from European bayonets. I personally feel that most were either made from European sword blades or forged locally. Given the shape and geometry of sboula blades, I just cant think of many, or even any, bayonets that would fit without having to be reforged. These daggers are quite long, and both I have blades of approximately 21 inches. We can rule out all shorter bayonets, along with all spike bayonets. There were longer bayonets available in the 19th century of course, but the French Chassepot bayonet and other yataghan bayonets had a characteristic curve, and the sboula of course does not. The Gras bayonet has a straight back, but lacks the fuller structure we see on sboula blades, and I have not seen a sboula with a blade of a T-section yet. I have seen janwi daggers with blades that most definitely started as French bayonets, but the fuller structure and shape of sboulas to me at least suggests sword blades (or local imitation thereof) and not bayonets. Sincerely, Teodor

9th March 2017, 05:48 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Berbers are spread from Tunisia to Mali. They view themselves as a nation separate from the Arabs and assert they are the native inhabitants of the area and that their ancestors were conquered by the Arabs and forcibly converted to Islam, to which they do not wish to belong. They call themselves Amazigh. Their national hero is Queen Kahina, a contemporary of Muhammed, who managed to stall Arab advance and maintain an independent Berber state for 5 years. Berbers are largely separated by clans concentrated roughly within different North African states. This probably explains the differences between their contemporary ethnic weapons. The sticky point in this explanation is the fact that we do not have examples of ancient Berber weapons, just the 19 century at the earliest. By that time, external influences, - Spanish, French, Italian and Ottoman,- likely obscured the inherent patterns and we have to resign ourselves to the fact that the original weapons of the Berbers will never be known to us.