keris bugis again

[La Pagaru]

Originally Posted by Green

La Pagaru;

Who is yasir mahmud? are ALL the keris pictures you showed belong to him?

Mr Maisey;

You comment about 'beauty is in the eye of beholder' is very true... but can you elaborate ? do you think the pics shown by la pagaru are not good bugis examples in your opinion? I really value your opinion and since I'm trying to learn and collect bugis keris would be thankful if you can elaborate.

Mr.green
This is I am send yasir Mahmud pict

[Green]

Thanks La Pagaru... yasir mahmud is a 'young collector'...now i'm beginning to understand Mr Maisey's comment better! experience and expertise do shows!

A pity though that Alan prefers not to give his opinion because I'd love to learn more, as my untrained eyes think that some examples shown by la pagaru are quite splendid, but obviously Mr Maisey thinks otherwise. I do not want to fall into the trap of buying bugis keris that looks 'sweet' but of questionable merit in future as i can hardly afford to spend money unwisely anymore...

But I do respect Alan's decision if he chooses not to give his opinion further of course.

[La Pagaru]

Originally Posted by Green

Thanks La Pagaru... yasir mahmud is a 'young collector'...now i'm beginning to understand Mr Maisey's comment better! experience and expertise do shows!

A pity though that Alan prefers not to give his opinion because I'd love to learn more, as my untrained eyes think that some examples shown by la pagaru are quite splendid, but obviously Mr Maisey thinks otherwise. I do not want to fall into the trap of buying bugis keris that looks 'sweet' but of questionable merit in future as i can hardly afford to spend money unwisely anymore...

But I do respect Alan's decision if he chooses not to give his opinion further of course.

Dear green
If u mine I am upload a new Keris, u abslotly wrong!! U can talk in Indonesian and singapure how I am and how much my dedicate for bugise culture! My be u reading my book SENJATA PUSAKA BUGIS karya Abe Ubbe and friends including me!! U can find my name's in the book!! My real name is Andi Aries pratama!

[Green]

La paragu,

I have that book you mentioned and I love the kerises in it. Very2 beautiful , all of them!

Sorry, I do not understand what you wrote . Can you rewrite in Bahasa Indonesia. I can read Bahasa Indonesia .

[La Pagaru]

Originally Posted by Green

La paragu,

I have that book you mentioned and I love the kerises in it. Very2 beautiful , all of them!

Sorry, I do not understand what you wrote . Can you rewrite in Bahasa Indonesia. I can read Bahasa Indonesia .

DEar green
first of all I would like to apologize if I am unfavorable ingrish language. you might think that a dagger which I uploaded is a new kris !! but I'll bet my capacity as a researcher and culture lovers, especially Bugis Bugis heritage. You should ask my name among friends in Indonesia singapore and malaysia! At the book senjata pusaka bugis you can find my name, my real name is Andi Pratama Aries! in close BTime I will release my book titled senjata pusaka bugis Dan serumpunnyar. In among collectors Bugis kaminpunya a principle, namely, the old, intact, beautiful prestige became a reference for collecting an inheritance for the collection! I've uploaded some new keris in different forums please see and distinguish! Thank you in advance

[La Pagaru]

This one a new Keris bugis

[La Pagaru]

This one after prosesing

[La Pagaru]

Dear all

This time I post a keris without camera effects, hopefully be discussed together ,. keris Bugis sepokal

[Green]

La pagaru

the peril of communication is second or thrid language!
At no time did i mention anything about the age of the keris!
My point is, I find the keris you posted good looking and I wonder why Mr Alan Maisey reserves his comment and I would like to learn what he thinks about the kerises!

(Bahaya kesilapan faham berkomunikasi dalam bahasa kedua atau ketiga!
Saya tidak pernah berkata tentang usia keris yang di tunjukkan!
Maksud saya, saya nampak keris2 yang di paparkan itu cantik, tetapi Alan Maisey tidak mahu komen, dan saya ingin tahu mengapa? supaya saya boleh pelajari daripada dia kerana dia seorang yang pakar tentang keris dan perkerisan.)

[David]

Originally Posted by Green

La pagaru

the peril of communication is second or thrid language!
At no time did i mention anything about the age of the keris!
My point is, I find the keris you posted good looking and I wonder why Mr Alan Maisey reserves his comment and I would like to learn what he thinks about the kerises!

(Bahaya kesilapan faham berkomunikasi dalam bahasa kedua atau ketiga!
Saya tidak pernah berkata tentang usia keris yang di tunjukkan!
Maksud saya, saya nampak keris2 yang di paparkan itu cantik, tetapi Alan Maisey tidak mahu komen, dan saya ingin tahu mengapa? supaya saya boleh pelajari daripada dia kerana dia seorang yang pakar tentang keris dan perkerisan.)

I don't wish to speak for Alan Maisey and i am sure he will come along at some point and speak to your concern here Green. However, Alan has made it clear countless times on this forum that both his expertise and interest lie in keris from Jawa, Bali and Madura. He is generally reluctant to comment on keris that are made outside of this area.

[David]

Originally Posted by Green

Sorry, I do not understand what you wrote . Can you rewrite in Bahasa Indonesia. I can read Bahasa Indonesia .

I do realize that language can be a problem with some and that communicating in languages other than our first one can be very difficult at times. I personally participate on forums where Indonesian languages dominate and find online translators very lacking. I must, however, reiterate that this is an English speaking forum. I have no problem with members posting in BOTH English AND Bahasa Indonesian if that is helpful, but i am afraid that i do have to insist that every post be in English as well. Thanks!

[kai]

Hello Andi,

Thanks for your efforts in posting keris Bugis on this forum and bearing with us and the language issues! (There are many participants whose primary language is not English. Thus, we know it can be tough, especially at the start - learning by doing can be also fun though...)

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

Hello Nik,

Please also keep in mind that standards of quality can change between regions. There are already differences between Bugis blades from southern Sulawesi and Bugis-influenced keris from the Malay peninsula. Traditional Jawa tastes are very different.

Let me explain why I am, personally, not so fond of the keris blade shown in post #17:
Disclaimer. This is a keris with miring pamor which is much, much more difficult to forge than most other pamor (and much more costly since more material is lost in the process). Thus, we're speaking of high level skill not needed for more common keris!

1. The kurissi pamor is not well controlled: If you follow the twistcore from the base (very broad, distorted) to the tip (distorted in another way), there is no real consistency, no real motif exhibited in the final result (for both lines of twistcore).
2. There is a massive cold shut between the two rows of twistcore (from the base pretty much into the distal third of the blade); apparently the pande was working at his limits here.
3. Just as disconcerting is that this (non-)joint is not following the middle of the blade (ada ada) and the luk (also seen on the other side of the blade).
4. IMHO the garap of the blade and flow of lines don't look refined. Compare with the other blade shown in the last pic of post #16: The blade on the left looks fair while the last luk of this keris seems to almost fall off...
5. I'm also not a fan of the greneng at the base of the blade and, especially, the pejetan... (Maybe the gonjo got replaced or the greneng restored but still there seems to be finesse missing here.)


Please do correct me if I'm wrong with any of the raised concerns! Andi and Yasir, I apologize for being frank - just trying to help you, Nik...


I am interested in the extensive cold shut - I've never seen this with antique Bugis blades from western collections. Continued TLC and "washing" in tropical climates may play a role here. However, a cold shut can also be detected without heavy corrosion/etching. I've seen quite a lot of karmadikan blades with similar forging flaws which got turned into features by the sellers. Any insights into how this connects with traditional Bugis culture despite the rarity of old blades with these "features" would be very much appreciated!

Regards,
Kai