The flowers on the tulwar hilts

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 16th February 2017, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

I think we must take into consideration , that the Hindu decoration of artifacts and weapons was used centuries before the Mughals arrived at the scene.
Before the Muslims arrived in India, they were influenced from different countries, but the Hindu's also had their own style.
Alan is right, scratching the stone doesn't help to understand, one must dig deeper.

Salaams Jens Nordlunde, I agree entirely with your perspective however, I believe that the concept of Islamic versus Hindu art is not up for scrutiny except that it is the balance of both when viewed through the lens of Dara Shikoh and conversely by Aurangzeb who had him executed for trying to fuse the two structures as one. It is therefor nothing to do with religion per se...although you could argue that heresy being the charge Dara had no chance of survival in the situation he found himself surrounded by...May I also point to the time zone that Floral art form more fully became accepted into Hindu art which was apparently not always the case~ As I stated at #51 here Viz;

It is fascinating that Dara (had tried to) fused the two religions of Islam and Hinduism into one form. Hindu decorative style would be influenced by floral art for centuries and become apparent in architecture, weaponry and virtually all forms of artistic work in the entire universal Hindu pallet of arts...In fact this was not always the case..Jahangir’s passion for natural history was not inherited by his son Shah Jahan and grandson Dara Shikoh. It was during the 1630s that flowers and floral arrangements with their decorative possibilities came to dominate Mughal textiles and the adornment of architecture and album pages. See http://blogs.bl.uk/asian-and-african/mughal-india/

It can be seen in the reference how Moghul art developed through phases until direct attention became focussed upon Floral artworks at the very time Dara Shikoh (and by his artists) were being influenced by Mystics perhaps pointing to their secretive and hidden meanings in weaponry decor; particularly hilts. It could be stated that he was one of the main patrons of this floral art form

What seems odd is that the zenith of floral paintings seems to be at the time Dara Shiko was inspired to have artists view flowers especially vases filled with blosoms...and more weirdly influenced by European (EIC) styles which were copied in an attempt to show more realism in Moghul art.

It is worth contemplating what would have been the outcome had Dara Shikoh somehow won against Aurangzeb ...He would have inherited the Mughal crown and in the style of Machiavellian events akin to the Tudors, Aurangzeb would probably have been executed and two great styles may even have been joined.

By now, we would all know the methods and secrets of Tulvar hilt decoration.

See also http://britishlibrary.typepad.co.uk/...spiration.html

The prime reasoning behind accepting into Moghul Art the European exactness of botanical studies in floral form was that it enabled greater accuracy in colours and in lifelike portrayals of subject matter.

Floral artwork of that period around 1620 to 1630 added below.

A. G. Maisey · 16th February 2017, 08:13 PM

Jens, I do not know of the poppy in Javanese decorative art.

In Malay, which means in Indonesian also, there is a word for the poppy:- "apiun". But there is no word in Javanese for the ornamental poppy.

In Malay, Indonesian and in Javanese there is a word for the opium poppy:- "madat".

In fact, I doubt that the poppy could grow in Java or Bali.

Jim McDougall · 16th February 2017, 09:24 PM

It seems that from the time of Akbar (1542-1605) there had been a notable tolerance of religions, and Akbar had been key in developing a rather syncretic approach to recognizing tenets of Hindu, Zorastrianism and Christianity. These attitudes and conventions seem to continue through his son Jahangir and grandson Shahjahan. During these times "...Shah Jahan not only continued his fathers love of floral imagery in his decorative arts, but also codified formal portraits of flowering plants as a dynastic leitmotif that was to continue for the next two centuries", (Markel, 1999, p26).

It states further that during this period, "...the naturalistic portrayals of noble animals favored in Akbari and Jahangiri paintings were adopted for use in the decorative arts.
As was generally the case with imperial painting, the decorative arts under Aurengzeb (1658-1707) and later Mughal emperors emulated those established during the reign of Shah Jahan". (Markel, p.26).

It is indicated that probably the same craftsmen were employed as the work carried strong resemblances to predecessors but it seems that as Aurengzebs reign progressed the styles began to degenerate and become more stylized. By the mid 19th century, the elegant floral depictions of the 17th c had become more stylized and repetitive.

It would seem that the more austere and orthodox character of Aurengzebs reign had, while allowing initially the continuance of these styles from earlier reigns, the lack of inspiration artistically and simple imitation had seriously degraded the floral theme.
It appears that under Aurengzeb, the characteristic calligraphic and geometric themes were advanced in the decorative arts, though as noted, repetitive floral themes continued in degree.

In the case of the poppy, this was of course a key floral theme during Jahangirs time, and carried on through Dara Shikoh, clearly for its pleasure giving properties. I am wondering if perhaps this particular flower may have been stricken from the themes during Aurengzeb given his highly orthodox character.

Also, perhaps the poppy in its more degenerative renderings may have occurred in influence in other art of regions such as Java, but simply as an interpretation of such themes. As a directly applied floral theme, as Alan indicates, probably not likely.

Jens Nordlunde · 19th February 2017, 04:49 PM

When it comes to the decoration on the top of the disc things gets somewhat more complicated.
To take the sun decoration, of which I have several, but the suns are different and the number of rays also. Some have an even number of rays while others have an uneven number. I dont know why it is so, but think it could have something to do with the different clans.
One from Salumbar/Udaipur/Mewar (dated 1870-71) has 40 rays (cat. p. 206), while one from Ulwar (late 18th century)has only 27 rays (cat. p. 241).

16th February 2017, 08:13 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	Jens, I do not know of the poppy in Javanese decorative art. In Malay, which means in Indonesian also, there is a word for the poppy:- "apiun". But there is no word in Javanese for the ornamental poppy. In Malay, Indonesian and in Javanese there is a word for the opium poppy:- "madat". In fact, I doubt that the poppy could grow in Java or Bali.

16th February 2017, 09:24 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,295	It seems that from the time of Akbar (1542-1605) there had been a notable tolerance of religions, and Akbar had been key in developing a rather syncretic approach to recognizing tenets of Hindu, Zorastrianism and Christianity. These attitudes and conventions seem to continue through his son Jahangir and grandson Shahjahan. During these times "...Shah Jahan not only continued his fathers love of floral imagery in his decorative arts, but also codified formal portraits of flowering plants as a dynastic leitmotif that was to continue for the next two centuries", (Markel, 1999, p26). It states further that during this period, "...the naturalistic portrayals of noble animals favored in Akbari and Jahangiri paintings were adopted for use in the decorative arts. As was generally the case with imperial painting, the decorative arts under Aurengzeb (1658-1707) and later Mughal emperors emulated those established during the reign of Shah Jahan". (Markel, p.26). It is indicated that probably the same craftsmen were employed as the work carried strong resemblances to predecessors but it seems that as Aurengzebs reign progressed the styles began to degenerate and become more stylized. By the mid 19th century, the elegant floral depictions of the 17th c had become more stylized and repetitive. It would seem that the more austere and orthodox character of Aurengzebs reign had, while allowing initially the continuance of these styles from earlier reigns, the lack of inspiration artistically and simple imitation had seriously degraded the floral theme. It appears that under Aurengzeb, the characteristic calligraphic and geometric themes were advanced in the decorative arts, though as noted, repetitive floral themes continued in degree. In the case of the poppy, this was of course a key floral theme during Jahangirs time, and carried on through Dara Shikoh, clearly for its pleasure giving properties. I am wondering if perhaps this particular flower may have been stricken from the themes during Aurengzeb given his highly orthodox character. Also, perhaps the poppy in its more degenerative renderings may have occurred in influence in other art of regions such as Java, but simply as an interpretation of such themes. As a directly applied floral theme, as Alan indicates, probably not likely.

19th February 2017, 04:49 PM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	When it comes to the decoration on the top of the disc things gets somewhat more complicated. To take the sun decoration, of which I have several, but the suns are different and the number of rays also. Some have an even number of rays while others have an uneven number. I dont know why it is so, but think it could have something to do with the different clans. One from Salumbar/Udaipur/Mewar (dated 1870-71) has 40 rays (cat. p. 206), while one from Ulwar (late 18th century)has only 27 rays (cat. p. 241).