Middle eastern musket ID help

BlacksmithingWitch · 9th February 2017, 05:54 PM

here we go, hopefully they'll appear now

kahnjar1 · 9th February 2017, 07:01 PM

Welcome to the Forum BlacksmithingWitch.
Very nice and interesting gun......the sling swivel and ladder sight suggest a military background with maybe some (later??) carving to the stock. The lock plate and barrel however do not appear to have a military origin, and show some nice decoration which looks to be very well done.
As to origin?.... well the "rosette" on the stock is found in Japan and India, and probably other places also, but design of this carving might just be coincidental.
You say you do not have the item to hand, but when you get a chance it could be worth removing the barrel to see if there are any Proof Marks present. If there are, then it is likely that (at least) the country of manufacture will be revealed.
Stu

BlacksmithingWitch · 9th February 2017, 10:23 PM

the front of the wooden stock has a metal cover that covers the last few inches of the stock and a few foreward onto the barrel, and by the coloration there was a band there thats become lost over the decades. there is a plate on the butt of the stock as well, engraved with similar decoration as the piece on the muzzle end of the stock and as the lock of the gun. The rosette made me think Japan also but I dont know what a smooth bore gun of caplock style would be doing in japan, much less how it is covered in middle eastern or indian looking motifs and gold inlay Its really a mystery to me but then again, thats why ive brought it to this forum

Martin Lubojacky · 10th February 2017, 07:25 AM

The rosettes on engraved additionally on such stocks were common in Anatolya, too.

BlacksmithingWitch · 10th February 2017, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Lubojacky

The rosettes on engraved additionally on such stocks were common in Anatolya, too.

the decorations other than that seemed turkish or from that vicinity, from what I know and have seen on hookah pipes and other items from the area.

Kubur · 10th February 2017, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Lubojacky

The rosettes on engraved additionally on such stocks were common in Anatolya, too.

In North Africa too!
I bet this rifle is Persian/North Indian...

BlacksmithingWitch · 14th February 2017, 10:19 PM

any more ideas/ thoughts on it from what ive shown thus far? and any idea of a possible timeframe? the barrel is hexagonal at the chamber but that only goes for about two inches before tapering to round. Its such an interesting thing to me, to the point im looking for a barrel thats sold in modern muzzle loader kits to see if it would be possible to replicate this gun with a firable copy.

rickystl · 16th February 2017, 02:40 AM

Hi Blacksmith.

Welcome to the Forum. A very interesting gun. I'm out of town at the moment, but will offer some comments this weekend. An interesting gun that appears to be a compilation of various parts re-used with a (then) new made stock. The lock, trigger, and guard appear to be Europen surplus used to assemble the gun.
But I want to check a couple of my reference books this weekend.

Rick.

9th February 2017, 05:54 PM	#1
BlacksmithingWitch Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 13	here we go, hopefully they'll appear now

9th February 2017, 07:01 PM	#2
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,786	Welcome to the Forum BlacksmithingWitch. Very nice and interesting gun......the sling swivel and ladder sight suggest a military background with maybe some (later??) carving to the stock. The lock plate and barrel however do not appear to have a military origin, and show some nice decoration which looks to be very well done. As to origin?.... well the "rosette" on the stock is found in Japan and India, and probably other places also, but design of this carving might just be coincidental. You say you do not have the item to hand, but when you get a chance it could be worth removing the barrel to see if there are any Proof Marks present. If there are, then it is likely that (at least) the country of manufacture will be revealed. Stu

9th February 2017, 10:23 PM	#3
BlacksmithingWitch Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 13	the front of the wooden stock has a metal cover that covers the last few inches of the stock and a few foreward onto the barrel, and by the coloration there was a band there thats become lost over the decades. there is a plate on the butt of the stock as well, engraved with similar decoration as the piece on the muzzle end of the stock and as the lock of the gun. The rosette made me think Japan also but I dont know what a smooth bore gun of caplock style would be doing in japan, much less how it is covered in middle eastern or indian looking motifs and gold inlay Its really a mystery to me but then again, thats why ive brought it to this forum

10th February 2017, 07:25 AM	#4
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 843	The rosettes on engraved additionally on such stocks were common in Anatolya, too.

14th February 2017, 10:19 PM	#7
BlacksmithingWitch Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 13	any more ideas/ thoughts on it from what ive shown thus far? and any idea of a possible timeframe? the barrel is hexagonal at the chamber but that only goes for about two inches before tapering to round. Its such an interesting thing to me, to the point im looking for a barrel thats sold in modern muzzle loader kits to see if it would be possible to replicate this gun with a firable copy.

16th February 2017, 02:40 AM	#8
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,629	Hi Blacksmith. Welcome to the Forum. A very interesting gun. I'm out of town at the moment, but will offer some comments this weekend. An interesting gun that appears to be a compilation of various parts re-used with a (then) new made stock. The lock, trigger, and guard appear to be Europen surplus used to assemble the gun. But I want to check a couple of my reference books this weekend. Rick.