VOC Hanger 1761 Amsterdam

Jim McDougall · 29th January 2017, 07:47 PM

Superb examples Jasper!! Thank you!

On the one shellguard hanger, there are a number of chop marks on the back of the blade near the hilt. It seems this type line chops occur on a number of ethnographic sword blades in the same manner (it seems dha in SE Asia and others). Have you come across any notations on this feature?

Also, it is interesting to see the variation of application of the dates and devices used, some in script, some stamped. The astral man in the moon aligns with of course these devices used on Solingen blades with talismanic/magic symbolism.

cornelistromp · 29th January 2017, 08:21 PM

Hi Jim,

yes I noticed the lines on the back of the hilt, I have no idea why this is done.There are on this blade remains of crossed anchors with a double A
of the admiralty of Amsterdam.
Below a date, unfortunately only the one and the six are legible.see picture , for another AA example of the a similar etching.

it looks as though the date is engraved on early houwers before +-1740 and stamped on the later examples.

best,
jasper

Terry K · 30th January 2017, 04:17 PM

Those are some great looking swords for their age and use. Great info too
Terry

cornelistromp · 21st January 2021, 03:08 PM

this voc cutlass was once shortly in my collection approx 20 years ago,
an rare original piece but unfortunately in a highly excevated condition.
The blade is dated 1790 and marked with an R for the VOC chamber of the city Rotterdam, The VOC Chamber of Rotterdam was one of the six Chambers of the Dutch East India Company.

The cutlass is recently auctioned in 2018 at Bellmanns for 400GBP.
After offered to me with forged provenance!?! probably to boost or justify the new price of 6 times the auction value.
When I carefully informed the person the real provenance, in this particular case known to me, he felt caught and not amused.

best,

M ELEY · 22nd January 2021, 05:29 AM

Wow, Jasper! I had forgotten about all of your truly remarkable hangers/cutlasses! Would absolutely love to have one of these types someday. Here is a hanger you helped me identify a number of years ago. Although not provenanced to VOC specifically, you did indicate that it was probably affiliated due to the hilt being the standing lion and the cruciform marking on the blade being found on Dutch coins of the era.

M ELEY · 22nd January 2021, 05:32 AM

Last two...always wondered what the carved symbol on the hilt represented (S-shaped backing each other with wings?). If this hanger distracts from the topic at hand, let me know and I'll remove it!

Jim McDougall · 24th January 2021, 12:25 AM

Capn, I recall this amazing sword from our discussions here in 2010, and while we did not resolve any definite explanations, there were some great possibilities.
What we know is that the designs and theme are sort of an amalgam of Sinhalese style, the Hindu goddess Lakshmi and themes with hunting dogs. Swords with these style hilts were known in Dutch context mid 17th c. in what was known as the 'leeuwengevesten' (=lionhead) theme. Similar style hilts seen in painting by Rotius (in "Some Facts Concerning Sword Hilts at Hoorn Around the Year 1650", van der Sloot and Kist, c. 1970).

It is thought this type hilt was perhaps crafted by an artisan in one of the Dutch ports in colonial regions of the Dutch East Indies. This may have been in response to the carved ivory hilts made by Ceylonese craftsmen for Dutch merchants and officials in the 17th c.

The blade is most interesting and distinctly a cutlass type blade, in the genre of the hangers we know so well. Most interesting is the 'four dot' device. While I have searched many years for a defined answer to the significance of this, it may well simply have a sort of talismanic meaning of good luck, as with the four leaf clover.
I have thought of possibility with the quatrefoil, often seen in Christian architecture etc. and while the cross comes to mind, the Four Gospels also are noted.

It is interesting that these four dots occur regularly on the quillon terminal disc of Dutch walloons. As we found, they are seen in the 'dump' (small change) coins of Ceylon and other colonial contexts.

In reading (passim) it seems there was mention that Johannes Kirschbaum of Solingen bought the 'kleebat' mark 20 Oct 1660. But this was a three petal cloverleaf apparently, and not this 'four'. But, who did he buy it from, and did not find a cloverleaf mark in his markings.

29th January 2017, 08:21 PM	#2
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	Hi Jim, yes I noticed the lines on the back of the hilt, I have no idea why this is done.There are on this blade remains of crossed anchors with a double A of the admiralty of Amsterdam. Below a date, unfortunately only the one and the six are legible.see picture , for another AA example of the a similar etching. it looks as though the date is engraved on early houwers before +-1740 and stamped on the later examples. best, jasper Attached Images

21st January 2021, 03:08 PM	#4
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	Dutch East India Trading Company (VOC) cutlass dated 1790 this voc cutlass was once shortly in my collection approx 20 years ago, an rare original piece but unfortunately in a highly excevated condition. The blade is dated 1790 and marked with an R for the VOC chamber of the city Rotterdam, The VOC Chamber of Rotterdam was one of the six Chambers of the Dutch East India Company. The cutlass is recently auctioned in 2018 at Bellmanns for 400GBP. After offered to me with forged provenance!?! probably to boost or justify the new price of 6 times the auction value. When I carefully informed the person the real provenance, in this particular case known to me, he felt caught and not amused. best, Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 21st January 2021 at 06:05 PM.

22nd January 2021, 05:29 AM	#5
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,158	Wow, Jasper! I had forgotten about all of your truly remarkable hangers/cutlasses! Would absolutely love to have one of these types someday. Here is a hanger you helped me identify a number of years ago. Although not provenanced to VOC specifically, you did indicate that it was probably affiliated due to the hilt being the standing lion and the cruciform marking on the blade being found on Dutch coins of the era. Attached Images

22nd January 2021, 05:32 AM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,158	Last two...always wondered what the carved symbol on the hilt represented (S-shaped backing each other with wings?). If this hanger distracts from the topic at hand, let me know and I'll remove it! Attached Images

24th January 2021, 12:25 AM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Capn, I recall this amazing sword from our discussions here in 2010, and while we did not resolve any definite explanations, there were some great possibilities. What we know is that the designs and theme are sort of an amalgam of Sinhalese style, the Hindu goddess Lakshmi and themes with hunting dogs. Swords with these style hilts were known in Dutch context mid 17th c. in what was known as the 'leeuwengevesten' (=lionhead) theme. Similar style hilts seen in painting by Rotius (in "Some Facts Concerning Sword Hilts at Hoorn Around the Year 1650", van der Sloot and Kist, c. 1970). It is thought this type hilt was perhaps crafted by an artisan in one of the Dutch ports in colonial regions of the Dutch East Indies. This may have been in response to the carved ivory hilts made by Ceylonese craftsmen for Dutch merchants and officials in the 17th c. The blade is most interesting and distinctly a cutlass type blade, in the genre of the hangers we know so well. Most interesting is the 'four dot' device. While I have searched many years for a defined answer to the significance of this, it may well simply have a sort of talismanic meaning of good luck, as with the four leaf clover. I have thought of possibility with the quatrefoil, often seen in Christian architecture etc. and while the cross comes to mind, the Four Gospels also are noted. It is interesting that these four dots occur regularly on the quillon terminal disc of Dutch walloons. As we found, they are seen in the 'dump' (small change) coins of Ceylon and other colonial contexts. In reading (passim) it seems there was mention that Johannes Kirschbaum of Solingen bought the 'kleebat' mark 20 Oct 1660. But this was a three petal cloverleaf apparently, and not this 'four'. But, who did he buy it from, and did not find a cloverleaf mark in his markings. Attached Images

29th January 2017, 07:47 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Superb examples Jasper!! Thank you! On the one shellguard hanger, there are a number of chop marks on the back of the blade near the hilt. It seems this type line chops occur on a number of ethnographic sword blades in the same manner (it seems dha in SE Asia and others). Have you come across any notations on this feature? Also, it is interesting to see the variation of application of the dates and devices used, some in script, some stamped. The astral man in the moon aligns with of course these devices used on Solingen blades with talismanic/magic symbolism.

30th January 2017, 04:17 PM	#3
Terry K Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 86	Those are some great looking swords for their age and use. Great info too Terry