Large Eagle Head Sword for ID

Terry K · 25th January 2017, 04:58 AM

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Belizechopper · 25th January 2017, 03:11 PM

When sprinting for eagle heads Glen can be most difficult to keep up with, however; if you do not run you do not get faster. In Mowbray's The American Eagle Pommel Sword there are 2 types displayed and reviewed but photos of three different types shown. The third style very similar to Terry's sword less the extra long beak and unusual attachment of knuckle bow to beak. German style ferrule and Emmor purchased blades and parts from S&K. The hunting sword dog head quillion used extensively by Solingen, interestingly also elongated. What does not fit unless entirely made by German firm is the over all excellent quality of manufacture. Emmor made nice swords but they still look American made. The flared counter guard almost like a transitional slot hilts also unusual. Eric

Jim McDougall · 25th January 2017, 05:02 PM

Absolutely right Eric! There is positively nobody with Glens tenacity and knowledge on these American swords, and I am always in awe as I go back through his detailed and astute entries on forum pages over the years.
I must admit I have been notably complacent in recognizing the powerful intrigue of these eagle heads, and though I had intended to get the late Andrew Mowbray's venerable book many years ago, I never did.

It is now thankfully on the way!!!! and I hope I can catch up with you guys

Thank you again for posting this Terry.

Questions:

1.are those acanthus leaves in the langet ? Could the 'shell' in the knuckleguard be an acanthus as well?

2.Did the English use eagle heads? In my hopeful quest through my 'notes' (dismally inadequate) I found an uncited entry noting a firm, Upson Bros. of New York who had contracts with sources in Birmingham, England. When the war of 1812 began, the swords (and presumably blades) kept filtering through in barrels and trunks labeled as 'canes' and other innocuous commodities.
Could that be the source for a Wooley blade?

Belizechopper · 25th January 2017, 11:39 PM

Stephen Richards and George Upson Co. Imported swords from Henry Upson, Salter, Bolton, Osborn and Gunby and Thomas Gill. I am not convinced it is a Woolley mark as there are two "L" and two "O" but one "E" in Woolley and this stamp does not look like a double stamp. While I do think the langets are a stylized acanthus leaf, I believe the shell guard is exactly that a shell and possibly has a Naval association. Most eagle heads were designed by the British but soon copied and sold by different Solingen firms. Some of the very early eagle head hunting swords are perhaps for British or Tory use but the British did not use the eagle pommels. Some German states France, and Austria all utilized eagles to some degree and I infact have an eagle head pommel that I believe is German from 1800 time frame. Because of the quality and eagle head style-Solomon Jackson, Salter, Weaver look I think this is a British made eagle, although Weaver was in Philadelphia, the ferrule looks german and the grip looks American. Weaver is the best guess at this point, if I sound confused there is a reason for it. I have seen this eagle before I just cannot remember where.

Hotspur · 26th January 2017, 04:30 AM

See the very nice eagle bought for or by a Scottish officer in Mowbray's book

There is more than one spelling for Wooley

One thing that had caught me about the subject sword was the chasing around the eyes.

In this case the balls are for an artillery oficer and seen with other later birds but not attached at the knuckle bow. Many of the Later Spies types gulp the guard.

Speaking of Solomon Jackson and balls below. Also a Spies clone with a ball.

Cheers,

GC

a fourteen ball for Jim

Jim McDougall · 26th January 2017, 03:05 PM

Thanks Glen! You have an amazing memory, thank you for remembering my work studying the 'five ball hilt'. That was a lot of years ago. I was sure that there must be some symbolic value in the representation of this number . Claude Blair in his article in JAAS thought these swords intriguing and hoped further research would evolve.
When my study reached into the symbolism of Freemasonry, Brian Robson disagreed and suggested to me that the number of the ball motif was simply aesthetic . The conundrum remains strictly a matter of opinion.

Cant wait to get my copy of Mowbray, and looking for articles on eagle head pommels in back issues of "Man at Arms" !! and pretty much through your amazingly thorough posts through the years on the forums.

Eric, thank you so much for your answer, beautifully explained!

25th January 2017, 04:58 AM	#1
Terry K Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 86	more Attached Images

25th January 2017, 03:11 PM	#2
Belizechopper Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 10	Emmor T. Weaver When sprinting for eagle heads Glen can be most difficult to keep up with, however; if you do not run you do not get faster. In Mowbray's The American Eagle Pommel Sword there are 2 types displayed and reviewed but photos of three different types shown. The third style very similar to Terry's sword less the extra long beak and unusual attachment of knuckle bow to beak. German style ferrule and Emmor purchased blades and parts from S&K. The hunting sword dog head quillion used extensively by Solingen, interestingly also elongated. What does not fit unless entirely made by German firm is the over all excellent quality of manufacture. Emmor made nice swords but they still look American made. The flared counter guard almost like a transitional slot hilts also unusual. Eric Attached Images

26th January 2017, 04:30 AM	#5
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 512	See the very nice eagle bought for or by a Scottish officer in Mowbray's book There is more than one spelling for Wooley One thing that had caught me about the subject sword was the chasing around the eyes. In this case the balls are for an artillery oficer and seen with other later birds but not attached at the knuckle bow. Many of the Later Spies types gulp the guard. Speaking of Solomon Jackson and balls below. Also a Spies clone with a ball. Cheers, GC a fourteen ball for Jim Attached Images

25th January 2017, 05:02 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,278	Absolutely right Eric! There is positively nobody with Glens tenacity and knowledge on these American swords, and I am always in awe as I go back through his detailed and astute entries on forum pages over the years. I must admit I have been notably complacent in recognizing the powerful intrigue of these eagle heads, and though I had intended to get the late Andrew Mowbray's venerable book many years ago, I never did. It is now thankfully on the way!!!! and I hope I can catch up with you guys Thank you again for posting this Terry. Questions: 1.are those acanthus leaves in the langet ? Could the 'shell' in the knuckleguard be an acanthus as well? 2.Did the English use eagle heads? In my hopeful quest through my 'notes' (dismally inadequate) I found an uncited entry noting a firm, Upson Bros. of New York who had contracts with sources in Birmingham, England. When the war of 1812 began, the swords (and presumably blades) kept filtering through in barrels and trunks labeled as 'canes' and other innocuous commodities. Could that be the source for a Wooley blade?

25th January 2017, 11:39 PM	#4
Belizechopper Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 10	Stephen Richards and George Upson Co. Imported swords from Henry Upson, Salter, Bolton, Osborn and Gunby and Thomas Gill. I am not convinced it is a Woolley mark as there are two "L" and two "O" but one "E" in Woolley and this stamp does not look like a double stamp. While I do think the langets are a stylized acanthus leaf, I believe the shell guard is exactly that a shell and possibly has a Naval association. Most eagle heads were designed by the British but soon copied and sold by different Solingen firms. Some of the very early eagle head hunting swords are perhaps for British or Tory use but the British did not use the eagle pommels. Some German states France, and Austria all utilized eagles to some degree and I infact have an eagle head pommel that I believe is German from 1800 time frame. Because of the quality and eagle head style-Solomon Jackson, Salter, Weaver look I think this is a British made eagle, although Weaver was in Philadelphia, the ferrule looks german and the grip looks American. Weaver is the best guess at this point, if I sound confused there is a reason for it. I have seen this eagle before I just cannot remember where.

26th January 2017, 03:05 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,278	Thanks Glen! You have an amazing memory, thank you for remembering my work studying the 'five ball hilt'. That was a lot of years ago. I was sure that there must be some symbolic value in the representation of this number . Claude Blair in his article in JAAS thought these swords intriguing and hoped further research would evolve. When my study reached into the symbolism of Freemasonry, Brian Robson disagreed and suggested to me that the number of the ball motif was simply aesthetic . The conundrum remains strictly a matter of opinion. Cant wait to get my copy of Mowbray, and looking for articles on eagle head pommels in back issues of "Man at Arms" !! and pretty much through your amazingly thorough posts through the years on the forums. Eric, thank you so much for your answer, beautifully explained!