An antique Thai enep

Sajen · 15th January 2017, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Just give it a try...

Hello Kai,

I've tried my best by the light we have at the moment in Germany!

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 22nd January 2017, 11:27 AM

Nobody have an opinion about the handle material? Kai???

kai · 22nd January 2017, 01:33 PM

Hello Detlef,

Sorry, forgot to answer!

Is this the highest magnification you can get? A vertical shot with the brass nut in the middle and focus on the end of the horn pommel would be best.

From the current pics, I'm still leaning towards water buffalo. I can't make out any features of rhino; however, I also don't see any certain signs for water buffalo yet.

Regards,
Kai

Ian · 22nd January 2017, 03:12 PM

Hi Detlef:

Looks like water buffalo to me. The "plates" or layers of horn are evident in your most recent pics. Very nice.

Ian

Sajen · 22nd January 2017, 03:39 PM

Hello Kai and Ian,

thank's for respond. Like said before, I am unsure as well but frankly said I never have seen such a structure (marked in the pictures, also visible in the other pic.s) by buffalo horn before. The opened "layers" I've seen by clearly identified rhino horn as well and I doubt that this would be a clear proof for buffalo horn.

Kai, will try to take a picture like requested from you but doubt that it will be from great help.

Regards,
Detlef

kai · 22nd January 2017, 06:24 PM

Hello Detlef,

You're pointing to the fibrous texture of the horn. However, this is not diagnostic and also seen with many (especially aging) water buffalo horn carvings. The same goes for translucency which is also often quoted to "indicate" rhino but is definitely not: Many rhino pieces are opaque and lots of non-rhino horn (especially from albinotic individuals) can be beautifully translucent...

The only diagnostic criterion (apart from DNA sampling which is also tough for horn) is the dot motif found with rhino horn since it is basically build from "glued" hair rather than being grown in layers of keratin.

I can't prove it from the additional pics but I'm fairly confident that this is not rhino and most likely water buffalo (some layers seem to be present); one of those pieces that need to be personally examined with good magnification though.

Regards,
Kai

CharlesS · 23rd January 2017, 02:28 PM

I tend to agree. Looks like Asian water buffalo horn to me. Beautiful, regardless!

Sajen · 22nd January 2017, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

A vertical shot with the brass nut in the middle and focus on the end of the horn pommel would be best.

This is the best I can do by the light we have in Germany in the moment.

Sajen · 22nd January 2017, 05:20 PM

Here for comparison a picture from colonial pipe tamper where the corpus is made from rhino horn.

22nd January 2017, 03:39 PM	#5
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,164	Hello Kai and Ian, thank's for respond. Like said before, I am unsure as well but frankly said I never have seen such a structure (marked in the pictures, also visible in the other pic.s) by buffalo horn before. The opened "layers" I've seen by clearly identified rhino horn as well and I doubt that this would be a clear proof for buffalo horn. Kai, will try to take a picture like requested from you but doubt that it will be from great help. Regards, Detlef Attached Images Last edited by Sajen; 22nd January 2017 at 03:58 PM. Reason: add picture

22nd January 2017, 05:20 PM	#9
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,164	Here for comparison a picture from colonial pipe tamper where the corpus is made from rhino horn. Attached Images

22nd January 2017, 11:27 AM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,164	Nobody have an opinion about the handle material? Kai???

22nd January 2017, 01:33 PM	#3
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello Detlef, Sorry, forgot to answer! Is this the highest magnification you can get? A vertical shot with the brass nut in the middle and focus on the end of the horn pommel would be best. From the current pics, I'm still leaning towards water buffalo. I can't make out any features of rhino; however, I also don't see any certain signs for water buffalo yet. Regards, Kai

22nd January 2017, 03:12 PM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,361	Hi Detlef: Looks like water buffalo to me. The "plates" or layers of horn are evident in your most recent pics. Very nice. Ian

22nd January 2017, 06:24 PM	#6
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello Detlef, You're pointing to the fibrous texture of the horn. However, this is not diagnostic and also seen with many (especially aging) water buffalo horn carvings. The same goes for translucency which is also often quoted to "indicate" rhino but is definitely not: Many rhino pieces are opaque and lots of non-rhino horn (especially from albinotic individuals) can be beautifully translucent... The only diagnostic criterion (apart from DNA sampling which is also tough for horn) is the dot motif found with rhino horn since it is basically build from "glued" hair rather than being grown in layers of keratin. I can't prove it from the additional pics but I'm fairly confident that this is not rhino and most likely water buffalo (some layers seem to be present); one of those pieces that need to be personally examined with good magnification though. Regards, Kai

23rd January 2017, 02:28 PM	#7
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	I tend to agree. Looks like Asian water buffalo horn to me. Beautiful, regardless!