Torador Matchlock - Finished

Philip · 3rd January 2017, 07:41 AM

It looks great! Can't wait to see the video of you shooting it. And seeing how the shots group at 50 yd. The barrel liner is good not only for reinforcing and safety, but it gives you a standard caliber that's easy to get the proper sized bullet mold for. Do you find that the stock allows you to get a good sight picture in a comfortable and stable shooting stance?

Kubur · 3rd January 2017, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip

It looks great! Can't wait to see the video of you shooting it. And seeing how the shots group at 50 yd. The barrel liner is good not only for reinforcing and safety, but it gives you a standard caliber that's easy to get the proper sized bullet mold for. Do you find that the stock allows you to get a good sight picture in a comfortable and stable shooting stance?

YES
I can't wait to see some videos if possible to hear the noise and to see the results on different kind of (non human) targets.

Happy new year and best wishes to all
Kubur

Roland_M · 3rd January 2017, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip

And seeing how the shots group at 50 yd.

The barrel seems to have a smooth bore so it is a musket.

I know a wonderful sarcastic statement of an American Civil War Veteran: "The safest place on a musket (smoothbore) is directly in front of it."

Roland

Pukka Bundook · 3rd January 2017, 02:46 PM

Ah Roland, Some say so but others know better! :-)
We shoot our EIC Type F's and find if we load and hold them right, we can keep our shots well in the black at 50 yards. (Offhand)

At our annual shoot here in Alberta, some of us tried them from a rest. In essence a high rest so we could shoot still standing.
With 125 grs of 2F and a .750" ball, we found we could keep our group in the 3 1/2 to 4" at 50 yards.
They Did kick more from a rest though!
A good friend in the UK has shot well with a musket for a long time, and has found that even with small charges of powder, (85 grs) he can shoot a score in the mid 90's and has won quite a few Golds in National and international events, three or four in the last year!
For his shooting this pal uses a patched ball, whereas we us Bill Curtis' method of a thick felt wad above and below the ball, well lubed.

Also, I've wanted to try a Torador for some time now, and have a barrel I'm working on, fine -boring it to smooth it up. What got me interested in these and trying them, are the contemporary accounts from the Indian sub-continent of matchlock Toradors out-ranging and being far more accurate than the British Service musket. ( Going by the above re. accuracy, I believe it wasn't so much the musket as the compromised loading for speed that made the musket less effective than it could have been)
So Rick!...as mine is not yet ready to fire,m we wait with baited breath for your reports!

Roland,
A good book with references to Toradors in use is "Sahib", by Richard Holmes, and of course Lord Eggerton has quotes from eye -witnesses regarding horsemen with matchlocks shooting small objects as they pass at a gallop at a range of 20-40 yards and "rarely miss".

All best,
Richard.

Roland_M · 4th January 2017, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Ah Roland, Some say so but others know better! :-)
We shoot our EIC Type F's and find if we load and hold them right, we can keep our shots well in the black at 50 yards. (Offhand)

At our annual shoot here in Alberta, some of us tried them from a rest. In essence a high rest so we could shoot still standing.
With 125 grs of 2F and a .750" ball, we found we could keep our group in the 3 1/2 to 4" at 50 yards.

All best,
Richard.

Hello Richard,

with a smoothbore barrel? I'm really impressed. I have some experiences in firing a black powder pistol but with a rifled barrel. The precision is almost the same as modern pistols. I always thought, that a smoothbore is very imprecise.

My knowledge come from military muskets and the bore of military muskets is always 2 or 3 mm bigger than the bullet because of the deposit from black powder in the barrel.

It seems, hunting muskets are much more precise.

I forgot to mention, that this is a nice and skillful restoration!

I'm also very interested to see the results and please Rick, clean the barrel after every single shot. I would not use more than 30 or 40 grain of black powder for the first shot.
The sound of a black powder gun is incredibly nice and only outclassed by a black powder canon.

Best wishes,
Roland

Pukka Bundook · 4th January 2017, 04:23 PM

Roland,
Yes, such results are possible with the smooth-bore. Note these loadings are with a closer fitting ball then was standard, where a paper cartridge was used, but useful shooting can still be done with the latter.
I too like the 'boom' of black!

Best wishes,
Richard.

rickystl · 7th January 2017, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roland_M

The barrel seems to have a smooth bore so it is a musket.

I know a wonderful sarcastic statement of an American Civil War Veteran: "The safest place on a musket (smoothbore) is directly in front of it."

Roland

Hi Roland.

LOL!!!! That's a good one.

Yes, it's a smoothbore. I have never seen any Torador that was not.

With the barrel liner I've dramatically changed the bore configuration from it's original design. So I'm guessing it will shoot similar to other smoothbore muskets now. It would have been very interesting to know how the original bore design would shoot. But I was not willing to risk it. LOL

Rick

rickystl · 7th January 2017, 07:00 PM

Hi Roland.

Thanks for your comments. Yes, I think it turned out well. Actually, I'll start with about 60 grains of FFG for 25-yards, and work my way up from there. I'll try both patched ball and unpatched with over and under wads as Richard mentions and see what works best. That would be a typical starting load for a .54 smoothbore. The stell liner will handle much more than that.

Hi Richard. Yes, a video would almost be required shooting this one for the first time. LOL Glad to hear your barrel is coming along. Something you might find interesting: The barrelsmith mentioned that the original forge-welded breech plug was done in such a manner (at least on my barrel) that it was virtually one piece and would have safely with stood the normal pressure of the black powder. JFYI

Rick

Pukka Bundook · 10th January 2017, 03:14 PM

Thanks for the info via your gunsmith friend re, the "integral' breechplug, Rick. Good to know as mine is staying in place. :-)

I just got half a matchlock shipped up here, (!) Yes, it is coming in 2 separate packages. It's that one from Jaipur with the wee birds on the wrist and badly broken stock. I am in high hopes the barrel is good, when it arrives!
Look forward to seeing your 'footage' when you fire this one. :-)

R.

Pukka Bundook · 13th January 2017, 01:50 PM

Update;
My Jaipur sporting matchlock barrel has arrived Rick, and it is a Lovely barrel!
Bore is very good And! ....It has No chamber at the breech!!!!
Smooth and a true cylinder all the way down.
Bit of light rust inside and out, but compared to many torador barrels, it's a lovely one.

Had to share. :-)
4 other barrels arrived at same time and the Persian ones are fantastic. So slim and light! 2 more torador barrels as well, from up in Oudh I believe.. Bores a bit rougher & no time yet to chech for chambers but think they will surely have them.
More as and when. :-)

Richard.

rickystl · 13th January 2017, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Update;
My Jaipur sporting matchlock barrel has arrived Rick, and it is a Lovely barrel!
Bore is very good And! ....It has No chamber at the breech!!!!
Smooth and a true cylinder all the way down.
Bit of light rust inside and out, but compared to many torador barrels, it's a lovely one.

Had to share. :-)
4 other barrels arrived at same time and the Persian ones are fantastic. So slim and light! 2 more torador barrels as well, from up in Oudh I believe.. Bores a bit rougher & no time yet to chech for chambers but think they will surely have them.
More as and when. :-)

Richard.

Hi Richard

WOW !!! All those barrels delivered at once! Merry be-lated Christmas. LOL.
Can't believe it. The one Torador barrel turns out to be cylinder bore it's full length ? Super !!! Hard to believe. I think it's trying to tell you it wants to shoot again. LOL Sounds like it just needs a burnishing and it will be ready to go. Very cool.
Do you think the stock can be restored ? Once you get started on the project please start a new Thread and keep us posted of your progress. Should be fun.
Also, post the other barrels if you want. We see very few Persian made barrels.

Rick

rickystl · 7th January 2017, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip

It looks great! Can't wait to see the video of you shooting it. And seeing how the shots group at 50 yd. The barrel liner is good not only for reinforcing and safety, but it gives you a standard caliber that's easy to get the proper sized bullet mold for. Do you find that the stock allows you to get a good sight picture in a comfortable and stable shooting stance?

Hi Philip.

What I found interesting is due to the design and length of the butt stock, you can actually get a sight picture with the butt against the shoulder or cupped under the armpit. With the liner there is a bit more weight added. I will probably start at the 25-yard bench to see where it shoots, and work my way up from there.

Rick

3rd January 2017, 07:41 AM	#1
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	It looks great! Can't wait to see the video of you shooting it. And seeing how the shots group at 50 yd. The barrel liner is good not only for reinforcing and safety, but it gives you a standard caliber that's easy to get the proper sized bullet mold for. Do you find that the stock allows you to get a good sight picture in a comfortable and stable shooting stance?

3rd January 2017, 02:46 PM	#4
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Ah Roland, Some say so but others know better! :-) We shoot our EIC Type F's and find if we load and hold them right, we can keep our shots well in the black at 50 yards. (Offhand) At our annual shoot here in Alberta, some of us tried them from a rest. In essence a high rest so we could shoot still standing. With 125 grs of 2F and a .750" ball, we found we could keep our group in the 3 1/2 to 4" at 50 yards. They Did kick more from a rest though! A good friend in the UK has shot well with a musket for a long time, and has found that even with small charges of powder, (85 grs) he can shoot a score in the mid 90's and has won quite a few Golds in National and international events, three or four in the last year! For his shooting this pal uses a patched ball, whereas we us Bill Curtis' method of a thick felt wad above and below the ball, well lubed. Also, I've wanted to try a Torador for some time now, and have a barrel I'm working on, fine -boring it to smooth it up. What got me interested in these and trying them, are the contemporary accounts from the Indian sub-continent of matchlock Toradors out-ranging and being far more accurate than the British Service musket. ( Going by the above re. accuracy, I believe it wasn't so much the musket as the compromised loading for speed that made the musket less effective than it could have been) So Rick!...as mine is not yet ready to fire,m we wait with baited breath for your reports! Roland, A good book with references to Toradors in use is "Sahib", by Richard Holmes, and of course Lord Eggerton has quotes from eye -witnesses regarding horsemen with matchlocks shooting small objects as they pass at a gallop at a range of 20-40 yards and "rarely miss". All best, Richard.

4th January 2017, 04:23 PM	#6
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Roland, Yes, such results are possible with the smooth-bore. Note these loadings are with a closer fitting ball then was standard, where a paper cartridge was used, but useful shooting can still be done with the latter. I too like the 'boom' of black! Best wishes, Richard.

7th January 2017, 07:00 PM	#8
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,632	Hi Roland. Thanks for your comments. Yes, I think it turned out well. Actually, I'll start with about 60 grains of FFG for 25-yards, and work my way up from there. I'll try both patched ball and unpatched with over and under wads as Richard mentions and see what works best. That would be a typical starting load for a .54 smoothbore. The stell liner will handle much more than that. Hi Richard. Yes, a video would almost be required shooting this one for the first time. LOL Glad to hear your barrel is coming along. Something you might find interesting: The barrelsmith mentioned that the original forge-welded breech plug was done in such a manner (at least on my barrel) that it was virtually one piece and would have safely with stood the normal pressure of the black powder. JFYI Rick

10th January 2017, 03:14 PM	#9
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Thanks for the info via your gunsmith friend re, the "integral' breechplug, Rick. Good to know as mine is staying in place. :-) I just got half a matchlock shipped up here, (!) Yes, it is coming in 2 separate packages. It's that one from Jaipur with the wee birds on the wrist and badly broken stock. I am in high hopes the barrel is good, when it arrives! Look forward to seeing your 'footage' when you fire this one. :-) R.

13th January 2017, 01:50 PM	#10
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Update; My Jaipur sporting matchlock barrel has arrived Rick, and it is a Lovely barrel! Bore is very good And! ....It has No chamber at the breech!!!! Smooth and a true cylinder all the way down. Bit of light rust inside and out, but compared to many torador barrels, it's a lovely one. Had to share. :-) 4 other barrels arrived at same time and the Persian ones are fantastic. So slim and light! 2 more torador barrels as well, from up in Oudh I believe.. Bores a bit rougher & no time yet to chech for chambers but think they will surely have them. More as and when. :-) Richard.