A Kindjal or a Qamas?

Rivkin · 25th February 2006, 11:07 PM

I am no specialist, especially when it comes to Iran, but imho it's Iran, 19th century, more on a boys' size scale. Provinse most likely Fars or north, Azerbajan ??.

sabertasche · 9th March 2006, 07:05 AM

Just thought I's ask again if someone can translate this Kindjal blade for me.

Thanks,

Greg

ham · 9th March 2006, 07:19 AM

This is an Ottoman boys dagger from the Trabzon area, it dates c. 1900-1920.
The type tends to be of very good, occasionally excellent, workmanship.
The inscription on the blade is probably the boy's name but it isn't quite clear. If you can post another image perhaps it can be read more easily.

Kama is what a Turk would call this dagger, kindjal is really a Russian word found in most texts but the Caucasian languages each render the word "dagger," and numerous varieties thereof, in different manners- Rivkin possibly can say more on this subject. I have run across at least 6 different terms for what we would simply call a "kindjal" in both Georgian and Adiga.

The term "fuller" is the correct one for forged-in grooves, as they are produced with a fuller or fullering tool.

Nice example, the mounts will no doubt clean to reveal an alloyed silver
common in Anatolia in the latter Ottoman period.

Ham

Rivkin · 11th March 2006, 06:38 AM

I am no linguist, but imho:
There are probably literally hundred or so names for kindjals/short swords/long knives in Caucasus. Currenty there are probably two that are most common - kindjal, since russian remain lingua franka for the region, and qama, since the latter one is derived from the persian(?) name for this weapon.
There is however some misunderstanding with vainakh, where K'ama means one of the form of " nation" - "nohchi k'am" chechen nation.

Other than that you should be ok with whatever you use - Kama or Kinzhal.

9th March 2006, 07:05 AM	#2
sabertasche Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 149	Translation Needed Just thought I's ask again if someone can translate this Kindjal blade for me. Thanks, Greg

25th February 2006, 11:07 PM	#1
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	I am no specialist, especially when it comes to Iran, but imho it's Iran, 19th century, more on a boys' size scale. Provinse most likely Fars or north, Azerbajan ??.

9th March 2006, 07:19 AM	#3
ham Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 190	This is an Ottoman boys dagger from the Trabzon area, it dates c. 1900-1920. The type tends to be of very good, occasionally excellent, workmanship. The inscription on the blade is probably the boy's name but it isn't quite clear. If you can post another image perhaps it can be read more easily. Kama is what a Turk would call this dagger, kindjal is really a Russian word found in most texts but the Caucasian languages each render the word "dagger," and numerous varieties thereof, in different manners- Rivkin possibly can say more on this subject. I have run across at least 6 different terms for what we would simply call a "kindjal" in both Georgian and Adiga. The term "fuller" is the correct one for forged-in grooves, as they are produced with a fuller or fullering tool. Nice example, the mounts will no doubt clean to reveal an alloyed silver common in Anatolia in the latter Ottoman period. Ham

11th March 2006, 06:38 AM	#4
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	I am no linguist, but imho: There are probably literally hundred or so names for kindjals/short swords/long knives in Caucasus. Currenty there are probably two that are most common - kindjal, since russian remain lingua franka for the region, and qama, since the latter one is derived from the persian(?) name for this weapon. There is however some misunderstanding with vainakh, where K'ama means one of the form of " nation" - "nohchi k'am" chechen nation. Other than that you should be ok with whatever you use - Kama or Kinzhal.