Bitten by the Keris Bug

[Henk]

If this is a souvenir, you could say that this keris is certainly acceptable and decent. Well done!!
The ukiran is more Jawa Deman. A good Bugis ukiran is more the pistol hilted grip. I would try to get such an ukiran.

But it is a very nice keris suitable for every serious keris collection.

[kai]

Hello Henk,

The ukiran is more Jawa Deman. A good Bugis ukiran is more the pistol hilted grip.

The anak ayam teleng is a JD variant from the Malay East coast. I'm attaching an antique example from my collection (sorry, pre-restoration pic with hilt still turned in non-typical direction).

Note the selut which would be typical for the Terengganu region and more suitable for this hilt type.

Regards,
Kai

[David]

Originally Posted by Henk

The ukiran is more Jawa Deman. A good Bugis ukiran is more the pistol hilted grip. I would try to get such an ukiran.

This confuses me Henk. This is a Bugis form of blade, but the Peninsula. As far as i understand it the right Bugis hilt would depend upon the area of origin for this particular Bugis style blade. I have seen many Peninsula Bugis blades dressed with Jawa Deman hilts. The style of hilt you seem to be describing is more correct for Bugis blades from Sulawesi and certain areas of Sumatra as far as i know.

[Henk]

Sorry for the confusion gentlemen. The english language is not my mother language. The hilt Kai showed is the one i ment and is in my opnion more suitable for this keris.

[F. de Luzon]

Thank you for your insights gentlemen! All your comments are much appreciated.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Henk

Sorry for the confusion gentlemen. The english language is not my mother language. The hilt Kai showed is the one i ment and is in my opnion more suitable for this keris.

Hello Henk,

in this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=terengganu, first post, you can see a nearly identical hilt. It's so far I know a typical Terengganu hilt, so is nothing wrong with this combination IMVHO. When you will search long enough you will find more examples of this style.

F. de Luzon, welcome to the forum!

Regards,
Detlef

[David]

Originally Posted by Henk

Sorry for the confusion gentlemen. The english language is not my mother language. The hilt Kai showed is the one i ment and is in my opnion more suitable for this keris.

Well, i don't wish to belabor this point much more, but Jawa Demam hilts are also commonly found on Bugis blades from the Terengganu area. Here is one that is not mine, but i have seen the blade and it is clearly of Bugis design. I also have one in my own collection which has not been photographed yet that has almost the exact same dress (hilt, cup and sheath). And i have seen many more like it from this same region.

[Laowang]

In my view, a good-quality Bugis-style blade, in relatively recent peninsular Malaysian dress in the style of the Terengganu region.

I agree that this isn't the finest rendition of the hilt form that I've seen. I've seen this particular style of hilt referred to by at least one Singaporean dealer as anak ayam teleng ("cuddling chick"), and appropriate for Terengganu dress. It's apparently the Terengganu form of the jawa demam hilt, at least according to this dealer. (Reviewing the thread, it occurs to me that I'm repeating things that kai has also said) I've seen other keris with this kind of hilt paired with the Bugis hilt cup; in my view, I think the entire ensemble is fine, and I personally wouldn't mess with it.

I wouldn't be sorry to have this blade, and dress, in my possession. Welcome to the forum, F. de Luzon.

[David]

Originally Posted by Laowang

In my view, a good-quality Bugis-style blade, in relatively recent peninsular Malaysian dress in the style of the Terengganu region.

I agree that this isn't the finest rendition of the hilt form that I've seen. I've seen this particular style of hilt referred to by at least one Singaporean dealer as anak ayam teleng ("cuddling chick"), and appropriate for Terengganu dress. It's apparently the Terengganu form of the jawa demam hilt, at least according to this dealer.

Just to be clear Laowang, the hilt i posted just previous to your post is what i know to be called "anak ayam teleng". Can i assume you are talking about the hilt in my post? I don't believe the hilt that is currently on the keris in question is that type of Jawa Demam. We can't really see all angles of it, but i do not believe it has the appropriate back "fin".

[F. de Luzon]

Thank you for the warm welcome Detlef and Laowang! Thank you all for your insights. I am attaching a few more photos of the hilt for your reference. I hope you will find them useful.

[F. de Luzon]

A few more.

[Laowang]

David, my understanding of the anak ayam teleng form below. Taken from the dealer's website.

[F. de Luzon]

Originally Posted by Laowang

In my view, a good-quality Bugis-style blade, in relatively recent peninsular Malaysian dress in the style of the Terengganu region.

I agree that this isn't the finest rendition of the hilt form that I've seen. I've seen this particular style of hilt referred to by at least one Singaporean dealer as anak ayam teleng ("cuddling chick"), and appropriate for Terengganu dress. It's apparently the Terengganu form of the jawa demam hilt, at least according to this dealer. (Reviewing the thread, it occurs to me that I'm repeating things that kai has also said) I've seen other keris with this kind of hilt paired with the Bugis hilt cup; in my view, I think the entire ensemble is fine, and I personally wouldn't mess with it.

I wouldn't be sorry to have this blade, and dress, in my possession. Welcome to the forum, F. de Luzon.

I will take your advice Laowang. For now I will invest in books on the keris, a truly fascinating topic. Thank you very much!

F. de Luzon

[David]

Originally Posted by F. de Luzon

I will take your advice Laowang. For now I will invest in books on the keris, a truly fascinating topic. Thank you very much!

F. de Luzon

I would encourage a similar path with this keris. I don't think you need to be considering upgrading the dress at all. It is what it is.

[kai]

Hello David,

Well, i don't wish to belabor this point much more, but Jawa Demam hilts are also commonly found on Bugis blades from the Terengganu area. Here is one that is not mine, but i have seen the blade and it is clearly of Bugis design. I also have one in my own collection which has not been photographed yet that has almost the exact same dress (hilt, cup and sheath). And i have seen many more like it from this same region.

You're showing the pekaka hilt which is a more northern Malay type, again a variant of the JD form.

The anak ayam teleng type is quite typical for Terengganu though.

Regards,
Kai

[David]

Originally Posted by kai

You're showing the pekaka hilt which is a more northern Malay type, again a variant of the JD form.
The anak ayam teleng type is quite typical for Terengganu though.

Of course! My bad! You are, of course, correct. Too many names in my head right now.
However, that said, i have quite often seen the pekaka hilt on Terengganu keris as well, so i think either would work and the hilt which is the keris is currently dressed with works just fine as well even if it is not of the highest quality carving.
I suppose this part of the discussion and my reason for thinking about the pekaka hilts to begin with was Henk describing a good Bugis hilt as more a pistol grip. Bugis culture is spread all across the area and the appropriate hilt for any particular Bugis keris will depend upon the specific area where it originates. It will not always be only the pistol grip form i believe Henk is referring to.

[Laowang]

David, I'm in complete agreement that a pekaka hilt would also have been appropriate for this keris; I have at least one Bugis-style keris in Terengganu dress with a pekaka hilt. Furthermore, I completely agree that a Bugis-style keris does not require a kerdas pistol-grip hilt; the hilt often varies depending on the location.

My thought with this particular keris is that someone did a reasonably decent job of dressing it in a manner appropriate to the blade, so why bother mixing & matching in an attempt to produce a more "correct" ensemble, given that the anak ayam teleng hilt is appropriate.