Kris

Sajen · 27th December 2016, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCUAL

finally had time to fix up this kris.

Wow, great result!

From where you get the handle and scabbard?

Regards,
Detlef

CCUAL · 27th December 2016, 08:37 PM

My bad, I forgot to attach.

CCUAL · 27th December 2016, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Wow, great result!

From where you get the handle and scabbard?

Regards,
Detlef

The scabbard and the handle came together with a broken blade, luckily the clamp fits perfectly, so its just basically transferring the hardware to the new blade, with some grinding to the mouth of the scabbard. I got this at an antique store in Yuma, Arizona.

Sajen · 28th December 2016, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCUAL

The scabbard and the handle came together with a broken blade, luckily the clamp fits perfectly, so its just basically transferring the hardware to the new blade, with some grinding to the mouth of the scabbard. I got this at an antique store in Yuma, Arizona.

Hello Chris,

great luck! Agree with Ian that the scabbard look much younger as the handle, do you have reworked it?

Regards,
Detlef

CCUAL · 28th December 2016, 04:44 PM

Hello Sajen, the scabbard and handle came together and are original it just look new now because I shaved off the patina by polished the wood and nails. I added the cloth and the rattan wrap later. Thanks for the comments and compliments. Cheers

CCUAL · 29th December 2016, 01:08 AM

Can someone tell me which moro tribe this belongs to? based on the sheath and handle. thanks

Battara · 29th December 2016, 04:08 AM

I have seen this before. According to the silver mounts, baka-baka, front "mouth" of the ganga, etc, I would place this as Maguindanao. I will admit the wranga does look a little Sulu.

Do you now own this?

And great work on the other kris - really brought out the pattern!

CCUAL · 29th December 2016, 05:25 AM

[QUOTE=Battara]I have seen this before. According to the silver mounts, baka-baka, front "mouth" of the ganga, etc, I would place this as Maguindanao. I will admit the wranga does look a little Sulu.

Do you now own this?

Yes, I pick this up from ebay early this year. Thanks btw for clarifying the origin of this kris.

Ian · 29th December 2016, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCUAL

Can someone tell me which moro tribe this belongs to? based on the sheath and handle. thanks

According to Cato, the sheath is Mindanao in origin, possibly Maranao. The hilt is harder to classify with its jute wrapping flanked by two encircling silver (?) sheet bands. There appears to be crenelation along the edge of the top band, a feature often found on Maranao hilts but by no means unique to that tribal group. The elephant tooth small kakatua pommel is unusual and not a characteristic finding for any of the major Moro groups.

Ian

Ian · 29th December 2016, 12:24 PM

Rarely do I disagree with Jose, but on this occasion I think he is mistaken in his attribution of the blade to the Maguindanao, at least if we are to believe Cato's classification.

Attached is a scan of Cato's Figure 39-42,* which I have labeled A,B,C,D: A = Sulu kris; B = Maranao; C = Maguindanao; and D = a "crossover" form. A picture of your kris (attached) shows the "elephant trunk" area is most consistent with the Maranao example (B) shown by Cato.

To quote Cato (p. 68):

The type that is distinctly Maranao begins with an elongated trunk [I think the tip of your trunk may have broken off]. The mouth cavity, while still present, is quite narrow, and the lower jaw runs parallel to the guard. While the Sulu, Maguindanao and "crossover" forms of the elephant's head/trunk motif display concave cavities beneath the lower jaw, the Maranao configuration does not.

Ian.

*Cato, R. Moro Swords. Graham Brash: Singapore, 1996, pp. 68-69.

DaveS · 28th December 2016, 02:16 AM

Chris: Two great looking twist-cores. You did really good. I think both would go late 1800s to very early 1900s. Can't do much better than that. Haven't seen you since the Pasadena Knife Show. That was more than a few years ago................Dave.

kai · 28th December 2016, 03:13 AM

Hello Chris,

Congrats, great score! (No idea how I missed this thread...)

I'm not sure if I would have changed the hilt - I believe this kris originally had 2 clamps. The "new" hilt with silver braiding is very nice though!

Regards,
Kai

Ian · 28th December 2016, 04:08 AM

Very nice kris.

The blade looks Maranao in origin with an unusual laminated pattern. The replaced hilt looks more Sulu than Maranao, while the scabbard looks very new and also Sulu in style. The materials used for the scabbard are non-traditional in a number of ways, with the use of large headed nails and a rattan wrap that I have trouble placing.

Ian.

CCUAL · 28th December 2016, 06:43 AM

Hello Dave, long time no see and talk, I might drop by at the Pasadena knife show this year. I would like to show you a large twistcore kris that I acquired yrs back. Send my regards to Lonna.

Ian, I might be wrong but thru my years of collecting moro weapons and moro weapons only, I have seen several kinds of scabbards with small and large nails, and the used of rattan wraps but styles varies this style I've seen other wise I won't use. The scabbard came with large head nails not newly added but original to it. It doesn't look old now because I had them polished, I also had an old moro weapon plaque with same type of nails use. You can also search thru this forums archive you will see a few scabbards with the same features. The only unusual thing probably added was the braided rattan wraps and the red cloth.

Kai, you're right, there might had been a second clamp. I was planning to add two clamps but I still remember how costly this things are. The last two clamps I had custom made cost me half a grand.

Thanks for the compliment Sajen.

CCUAL · 10th May 2018, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Very nice kris.

The materials used for the scabbard are non-traditional in a number of ways, with the use of large headed nails and a rattan wrap that I have trouble placing.

Ian.

large nails were original, i just had to polish them.., i think i can find another kris scabbard with the same wrap here somewhere.

CCUAL · 11th May 2018, 12:07 AM

moro trad wrap.

Battara · 11th May 2018, 10:30 PM

THe top picture is from Ashokaarts and is a kris from Tawi-Tawi

CCUAL · 29th December 2016, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveS

Chris: Two great looking twist-cores. You did really good. I think both would go late 1800s to very early 1900s. Can't do much better than that. Haven't seen you since the Pasadena Knife Show. That was more than a few years ago................Dave.

Hey Dave, long time no see. I was going to see you guys at the Militaria antique show in Pomona at one time but I missed the opportunity. Hopefully this year I can drop by at the Pasadena knife show. Pls. bring your twistcore krises. ;o) Send my regards to Lonna.

28th December 2016, 04:44 PM	#5
CCUAL Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 76	Hello Sajen, the scabbard and handle came together and are original it just look new now because I shaved off the patina by polished the wood and nails. I added the cloth and the rattan wrap later. Thanks for the comments and compliments. Cheers Last edited by CCUAL; 28th December 2016 at 05:11 PM.

29th December 2016, 01:08 AM	#6
CCUAL Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 76	Tooth Kris Can someone tell me which moro tribe this belongs to? based on the sheath and handle. thanks Attached Images

29th December 2016, 12:24 PM	#10
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,396	Rarely do I disagree with Jose, but on this occasion I think he is mistaken in his attribution of the blade to the Maguindanao, at least if we are to believe Cato's classification. Attached is a scan of Cato's Figure 39-42,* which I have labeled A,B,C,D: A = Sulu kris; B = Maranao; C = Maguindanao; and D = a "crossover" form. A picture of your kris (attached) shows the "elephant trunk" area is most consistent with the Maranao example (B) shown by Cato. To quote Cato (p. 68): The type that is distinctly Maranao begins with an elongated trunk [I think the tip of your trunk may have broken off]. The mouth cavity, while still present, is quite narrow, and the lower jaw runs parallel to the guard. While the Sulu, Maguindanao and "crossover" forms of the elephant's head/trunk motif display concave cavities beneath the lower jaw, the Maranao configuration does not. Ian. Cato, R. Moro Swords*. Graham Brash: Singapore, 1996, pp. 68-69. Attached Images

11th May 2018, 12:07 AM	#16
CCUAL Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 76	moro trad wrap. Attached Images

27th December 2016, 08:37 PM	#2
CCUAL Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 76	My bad, I forgot to attach.

29th December 2016, 04:08 AM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	I have seen this before. According to the silver mounts, baka-baka, front "mouth" of the ganga, etc, I would place this as Maguindanao. I will admit the wranga does look a little Sulu. Do you now own this? And great work on the other kris - really brought out the pattern!

29th December 2016, 05:25 AM	#8
CCUAL Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 76	[QUOTE=Battara]I have seen this before. According to the silver mounts, baka-baka, front "mouth" of the ganga, etc, I would place this as Maguindanao. I will admit the wranga does look a little Sulu. Do you now own this? Yes, I pick this up from ebay early this year. Thanks btw for clarifying the origin of this kris.

28th December 2016, 02:16 AM	#11
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	Chris: Two great looking twist-cores. You did really good. I think both would go late 1800s to very early 1900s. Can't do much better than that. Haven't seen you since the Pasadena Knife Show. That was more than a few years ago................Dave.

28th December 2016, 03:13 AM	#12
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello Chris, Congrats, great score! (No idea how I missed this thread...) I'm not sure if I would have changed the hilt - I believe this kris originally had 2 clamps. The "new" hilt with silver braiding is very nice though! Regards, Kai

28th December 2016, 04:08 AM	#13
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,396	Very nice kris. The blade looks Maranao in origin with an unusual laminated pattern. The replaced hilt looks more Sulu than Maranao, while the scabbard looks very new and also Sulu in style. The materials used for the scabbard are non-traditional in a number of ways, with the use of large headed nails and a rattan wrap that I have trouble placing. Ian.

28th December 2016, 06:43 AM	#14
CCUAL Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 76	Hello Dave, long time no see and talk, I might drop by at the Pasadena knife show this year. I would like to show you a large twistcore kris that I acquired yrs back. Send my regards to Lonna. Ian, I might be wrong but thru my years of collecting moro weapons and moro weapons only, I have seen several kinds of scabbards with small and large nails, and the used of rattan wraps but styles varies this style I've seen other wise I won't use. The scabbard came with large head nails not newly added but original to it. It doesn't look old now because I had them polished, I also had an old moro weapon plaque with same type of nails use. You can also search thru this forums archive you will see a few scabbards with the same features. The only unusual thing probably added was the braided rattan wraps and the red cloth. Kai, you're right, there might had been a second clamp. I was planning to add two clamps but I still remember how costly this things are. The last two clamps I had custom made cost me half a grand. Thanks for the compliment Sajen.

11th May 2018, 10:30 PM	#17
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	THe top picture is from Ashokaarts and is a kris from Tawi-Tawi