Torador Matchlock - Finished

[rickystl]

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi Rick,
Great work as always and I'm with Stu on the bits, nicely done. There's quite a lot of Toradors in the U.K., bring backs during the Raj, most of which are in a sorry state stuffed in garages and attics but the bits are much more difficult to find so it's nice to see them together. I've not been about much lately, have you got a liner in the barrel and if you have what is it like to shoot?
Regards,
Norman.

Hi Norman.

Thanks for your comments. The barrel does in fact have a new steel liner. It's now a .54 caliber (14mm) smoothbore. I can load, shoot, and clean just like any other muzzle loader. It was just finished, so I have not fired it yet. Will probably wait till early Spring so I can have someone shoot a video.

Next Project, I'm sending off the barrel of an Albanian Tanchika long gun to have a liner installed. LOL

Rick

[Pukka Bundook]

Look forward to a range report Rick!
Like I said elsewhere, I believe this gun came from Jaipur originally, going by the metal re-enforcing and decorative style.

Looks well now. Maybe polish the scratches out on the muzzle end a bit.. :-)

R.

[rickystl]

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Look forward to a range report Rick!
Like I said elsewhere, I believe this gun came from Jaipur originally, going by the metal re-enforcing and decorative style.

Looks well now. Maybe polish the scratches out on the muzzle end a bit.. :-)

R.

Hi Richard.

Thanks again for the comments. I agree with your origins assessment. Now that you mention it, yes. The muzzle end could do with a bit of oil and crocus cloth. LOL.

Rick

[Philip]

It looks great! Can't wait to see the video of you shooting it. And seeing how the shots group at 50 yd. The barrel liner is good not only for reinforcing and safety, but it gives you a standard caliber that's easy to get the proper sized bullet mold for. Do you find that the stock allows you to get a good sight picture in a comfortable and stable shooting stance?

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by Philip

It looks great! Can't wait to see the video of you shooting it. And seeing how the shots group at 50 yd. The barrel liner is good not only for reinforcing and safety, but it gives you a standard caliber that's easy to get the proper sized bullet mold for. Do you find that the stock allows you to get a good sight picture in a comfortable and stable shooting stance?

YES
I can't wait to see some videos if possible to hear the noise and to see the results on different kind of (non human) targets.

Happy new year and best wishes to all
Kubur

[Roland_M]

Originally Posted by Philip

And seeing how the shots group at 50 yd.

The barrel seems to have a smooth bore so it is a musket.

I know a wonderful sarcastic statement of an American Civil War Veteran: "The safest place on a musket (smoothbore) is directly in front of it."


Roland

[Pukka Bundook]

Ah Roland, Some say so but others know better! :-)
We shoot our EIC Type F's and find if we load and hold them right, we can keep our shots well in the black at 50 yards. (Offhand)

At our annual shoot here in Alberta, some of us tried them from a rest. In essence a high rest so we could shoot still standing.
With 125 grs of 2F and a .750" ball, we found we could keep our group in the 3 1/2 to 4" at 50 yards.
They Did kick more from a rest though!
A good friend in the UK has shot well with a musket for a long time, and has found that even with small charges of powder, (85 grs) he can shoot a score in the mid 90's and has won quite a few Golds in National and international events, three or four in the last year!
For his shooting this pal uses a patched ball, whereas we us Bill Curtis' method of a thick felt wad above and below the ball, well lubed.

Also, I've wanted to try a Torador for some time now, and have a barrel I'm working on, fine -boring it to smooth it up. What got me interested in these and trying them, are the contemporary accounts from the Indian sub-continent of matchlock Toradors out-ranging and being far more accurate than the British Service musket. ( Going by the above re. accuracy, I believe it wasn't so much the musket as the compromised loading for speed that made the musket less effective than it could have been)
So Rick!...as mine is not yet ready to fire,m we wait with baited breath for your reports!

Roland,
A good book with references to Toradors in use is "Sahib", by Richard Holmes, and of course Lord Eggerton has quotes from eye -witnesses regarding horsemen with matchlocks shooting small objects as they pass at a gallop at a range of 20-40 yards and "rarely miss".

All best,
Richard.

[Roland_M]

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Ah Roland, Some say so but others know better! :-)
We shoot our EIC Type F's and find if we load and hold them right, we can keep our shots well in the black at 50 yards. (Offhand)

At our annual shoot here in Alberta, some of us tried them from a rest. In essence a high rest so we could shoot still standing.
With 125 grs of 2F and a .750" ball, we found we could keep our group in the 3 1/2 to 4" at 50 yards.

All best,
Richard.

Hello Richard,

with a smoothbore barrel? I'm really impressed. I have some experiences in firing a black powder pistol but with a rifled barrel. The precision is almost the same as modern pistols. I always thought, that a smoothbore is very imprecise.

My knowledge come from military muskets and the bore of military muskets is always 2 or 3 mm bigger than the bullet because of the deposit from black powder in the barrel.

It seems, hunting muskets are much more precise.

I forgot to mention, that this is a nice and skillful restoration!

I'm also very interested to see the results and please Rick, clean the barrel after every single shot. I would not use more than 30 or 40 grain of black powder for the first shot.
The sound of a black powder gun is incredibly nice and only outclassed by a black powder canon.


Best wishes,
Roland

[rickystl]

Originally Posted by Roland_M

The barrel seems to have a smooth bore so it is a musket.

I know a wonderful sarcastic statement of an American Civil War Veteran: "The safest place on a musket (smoothbore) is directly in front of it."


Roland

Hi Roland.

LOL!!!! That's a good one. Yes, it's a smoothbore. I have never seen any Torador that was not.

With the barrel liner I've dramatically changed the bore configuration from it's original design. So I'm guessing it will shoot similar to other smoothbore muskets now. It would have been very interesting to know how the original bore design would shoot. But I was not willing to risk it. LOL

Rick

[rickystl]

Hi Roland.

Thanks for your comments. Yes, I think it turned out well. Actually, I'll start with about 60 grains of FFG for 25-yards, and work my way up from there. I'll try both patched ball and unpatched with over and under wads as Richard mentions and see what works best. That would be a typical starting load for a .54 smoothbore. The stell liner will handle much more than that.

Hi Richard. Yes, a video would almost be required shooting this one for the first time. LOL Glad to hear your barrel is coming along. Something you might find interesting: The barrelsmith mentioned that the original forge-welded breech plug was done in such a manner (at least on my barrel) that it was virtually one piece and would have safely with stood the normal pressure of the black powder. JFYI

Rick

[rickystl]

Originally Posted by Philip

It looks great! Can't wait to see the video of you shooting it. And seeing how the shots group at 50 yd. The barrel liner is good not only for reinforcing and safety, but it gives you a standard caliber that's easy to get the proper sized bullet mold for. Do you find that the stock allows you to get a good sight picture in a comfortable and stable shooting stance?

Hi Philip.

What I found interesting is due to the design and length of the butt stock, you can actually get a sight picture with the butt against the shoulder or cupped under the armpit. With the liner there is a bit more weight added. I will probably start at the 25-yard bench to see where it shoots, and work my way up from there.

Rick