unusual keris

[Rafngard]

Originally Posted by satsujinken

leather ?? hmmm ... I don't think it's leather, wood is the most probable

Right, sorry. To be clear, I do not doubt that it is wood.
My thought was that if we have one cultural context for a non-metal keris, then two is at least possible. I thought maybe it was related, but not the same.

That said, hey, if one person made a prop from leather, why couldn't another make one from wood?

Thanks,
Leif

[David]

Originally Posted by Rafngard

My thought was that if we have one cultural context for a non-metal keris, then two is at least possible. I thought maybe it was related, but not the same.

That said, hey, if one person made a prop from leather, why couldn't another make one from wood?

Other opinions might vary, but i would argue that there is no such thing as a non-metal keris. The leather objects used for dance and theatrical purposes are not keris, they are, as you have noted, a "prop made from leather". I suspect that this is indeed some kind of prop for theatrical purposes. Again, that does not discount it from being somebody's family pusaka, but it is not a keris IMHO.

[Rafngard]

Originally Posted by David

Other opinions might vary, but i would argue that there is no such thing as a non-metal keris. The leather objects used for dance and theatrical purposes are not keris, they are, as you have noted, a "prop made from leather".

A fair point.
Perhaps a pseudo- or quasi- keris?
Certainly a "keris like object."

Thanks,
Leif

[kai]

Hello David,

Other opinions might vary, but i would argue that there is no such thing as a non-metal keris. The leather objects used for dance and theatrical purposes are not keris, they are, as you have noted, a "prop made from leather". I suspect that this is indeed some kind of prop for theatrical purposes. Again, that does not discount it from being somebody's family pusaka, but it is not a keris IMHO.

No doubt, the intrinsic value/power is based on the iron/steel blade of any keris (noting a few exceptions made from bronze).

However, if a keris performs as a culturally accepted "prop" in a ceremonial setting of the culture, say, a wedding, one might also argue that it is a real keris, isn't it?


Donny, I'd love to hear any updates on its material. If wood, it seems to have received some surface treatment to make it look more like a corroded metal blade; is the gonjo separate or just indicated by an incision? One option would be to use some sandpaper to remove any surface treatment at the end of the pesi to get a glimpse of the base material?

Regards,
Kai

[David]

Originally Posted by kai

However, if a keris performs as a culturally accepted "prop" in a ceremonial setting of the culture, say, a wedding, one might also argue that it is a real keris, isn't it?

Sure Kai, one might argue that. I believe that in a similar discussion of what constitutes a "real" keris Alan once remarked about seeing a cardboard cutout blade used in a wedding serving as a keris. And as we have also discussed on this forum, belief plays an important factor in all things Indonesian, so people are welcome to believe this to be anything they want, i suppose, and who am i to try to dissuade them. However, when you ask me "what do I think" as Donny has here, i believe i will stick to my assessment until further evidence comes along to change my mind. If someone can convincingly explain to me how and why such an item has served in the capacity of a real keris (and for me i believe it would have to go beyond simply serving as a prop for a wedding) then perhaps i can accept it. But i think that the theater use scenario seems more likely in this case. Someone obviously went to some trouble to make the blade appear as metal, something i don't believe would be necessary for this object to pass simply as an article of formal dress in a wedding. So the blade was meant to be seen, unlike the cardboard wedding prop blade Alan once described. Stage use seems a fairly likely venue in that case. Theatre and the Wayang is a very important cultural aspect of Jawa and Bali (and, i assume, Madura). If this were the personal theatre prop of a venerated Wayang dancer i can certainly see it becoming part of the family pusaka and passed down to the next generation. Though i am open to further information i know of no spiritual or magickal reasons why someone would craft a keris out of wood instead of iron.

[Pusaka]

The symbol on the keris is interesting, it is used in Silat to denote a knowledge of ilmu kebatinan.

[David]

Originally Posted by Pusaka

The symbol on the keris is interesting, it is used in Silat to denote a knowledge of ilmu kebatinan.

I have also seen this symbol on a few actual keris, usually more contemporary pieces or older keris where the added markings are more recent. We should keep in mind that while kebatinan claims ties to ancient knowledge and traditions it is a relatively new philosophical movement beginning sometime around the 1920s and not really gaining any popular foothold until sometime after WWII.

[Pusaka]

Originally Posted by David

I have also seen this symbol on a few actual keris, usually more contemporary pieces or older keris where the added markings are more recent. We should keep in mind that while kebatinan claims ties to ancient knowledge and traditions it is a relatively new philosophical movement beginning sometime around the 1920s and not really gaining any popular foothold until sometime after WWII.

This symbol relates to Sufi type knowledge and therefore would not pre date the spread of Islam in Indonesia. I believe this specific knowledge has its origins with the Wali Sunan Bonang who then passed it to Sunan Kalijaga.