As promised: Ottoman Sultan/ Viking sword

iskender · 16th December 2016, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVV

I would not call it trolling, not at all. Ariel is just sharing with us a seller's listing from the most popular online auction site. There are of course a lot of ridiculous listings there, but some simply stand out, like this particular one. It is also a good reminder that we need to rely on our own knowledge and research, and not on sellers' descriptions. Especially when it comes to ultra rare Viking/Ottoman broadswords.

Teodor

the word " trolling" was not meant serious !

it was meant somehow in the direction of the " Pigfish "

i just ran in a open knife ! i take this with humor ! we call that " Grundlagenirrtum " ! greetigs and a good day to you ! alexander

ariel · 9th January 2017, 09:35 AM

Just a final note. The seller was obviously disturbed by my question about the authenticity of this sword and wanted to prove that he was right and I was wrong.
Thus, I just got a message from him ( his name removed):

------------------------------

New message from: ...........(73Blue Star)

Two weeks ago I've sent the pictures of this sword to a well known auction house in England and the sword is from the late byzantine period. It is known as Varangian guard sword, were vikings in service for the byzantine empire. One of the historians of the mentioned auction house purchased the sword for $4500 two days ago in ebay. Just wanted you to know it was an ancient sword.

Thanks and
"Happy new year"
----------------------------------

Well, good for him and for the auction house.

See you at Sotheby's or Christie:-)

Lee · 9th January 2017, 09:55 AM

The most frightening thing of all is that the seller's recent message may well be entirely truthful in the detail about an auction house expert buying the sword.

mariusgmioc · 9th January 2017, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee

The most frightening thing of all is that the seller's recent message may well be entirely truthful in the detail about an auction house expert buying the sword.

So much about auction houses "experts!"

Anyhow, it wouldn't be a first as I have seen on too many occasions obvious modern replicas selling as genuine antique blades for extortionately high prices... and with reputed auction houses.

Ian · 11th January 2017, 05:13 AM

The information provided here is a perfect set up for a con.

The Virangian were real soldiers in the service of the Emperor of the Byzantine Empire. They were mainly Germanic and Norsemen, with a few Rus thrown in. That all has a factual basis. But the swords of these elite soldiers, what did they really look like? And that's the opening a forger can exploit.

What are the odds that we see more "Virangian swords" coming on the market based on old patterns of Viking, German or Russian swords?

Caveat emptor indeed!!!

Jim McDougall · 11th January 2017, 10:37 PM

As well noted by Ian, this topic is pretty dangerous, especially with a description presented in eloquent text peppered with impressive though vague references to historic figures and empires.
I can recall one query asking, "what kind of swords did the Byzantines use?".

Naturally trying to describe the spectrum of swords here would look like Stones volume! as that empire lasted well over a millennia and covered more of the then known world than describable without itemizing each region and time frame.

Even the description of 'Varangians' is profoundly vague as it was a term describing Vikings used by Greeks and Eastern Slavs covering several centuries and regionally diverse to include Rus and others as well.

I would definitely be wary of swords with descriptions using these kinds of terms. Speaking of that, one of these interesting hilts once appeared in a prominent auction paired with a Sudanese blade. It was apparently quite convincing as it sold I believe, perhaps primarily for the impressive blade.

Iain · 12th January 2017, 03:14 PM

This is the Sudanese fake with the same hilt Jim mentions was this one. It sold at Christie's for quite a large sum as I recall.

9th January 2017, 09:55 AM	#3
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 937	Well, good for him... The most frightening thing of all is that the seller's recent message may well be entirely truthful in the detail about an auction house expert buying the sword.

12th January 2017, 03:14 PM	#7
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,717	This is the Sudanese fake with the same hilt Jim mentions was this one. It sold at Christie's for quite a large sum as I recall. Attached Images

9th January 2017, 09:35 AM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Just a final note. The seller was obviously disturbed by my question about the authenticity of this sword and wanted to prove that he was right and I was wrong. Thus, I just got a message from him ( his name removed): ------------------------------ New message from: ...........(73Blue Star) Two weeks ago I've sent the pictures of this sword to a well known auction house in England and the sword is from the late byzantine period. It is known as Varangian guard sword, were vikings in service for the byzantine empire. One of the historians of the mentioned auction house purchased the sword for $4500 two days ago in ebay. Just wanted you to know it was an ancient sword. Thanks and "Happy new year" ---------------------------------- Well, good for him and for the auction house. See you at Sotheby's or Christie:-)

11th January 2017, 05:13 AM	#5
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,396	The information provided here is a perfect set up for a con. The Virangian were real soldiers in the service of the Emperor of the Byzantine Empire. They were mainly Germanic and Norsemen, with a few Rus thrown in. That all has a factual basis. But the swords of these elite soldiers, what did they really look like? And that's the opening a forger can exploit. What are the odds that we see more "Virangian swords" coming on the market based on old patterns of Viking, German or Russian swords? Caveat emptor indeed!!!

11th January 2017, 10:37 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	As well noted by Ian, this topic is pretty dangerous, especially with a description presented in eloquent text peppered with impressive though vague references to historic figures and empires. I can recall one query asking, "what kind of swords did the Byzantines use?". Naturally trying to describe the spectrum of swords here would look like Stones volume! as that empire lasted well over a millennia and covered more of the then known world than describable without itemizing each region and time frame. Even the description of 'Varangians' is profoundly vague as it was a term describing Vikings used by Greeks and Eastern Slavs covering several centuries and regionally diverse to include Rus and others as well. I would definitely be wary of swords with descriptions using these kinds of terms. Speaking of that, one of these interesting hilts once appeared in a prominent auction paired with a Sudanese blade. It was apparently quite convincing as it sold I believe, perhaps primarily for the impressive blade.