Carved ivory handles on Indian edged weapons

rand · 18th November 2016, 07:13 PM

The finely carved ivory handle on the sword seems to be very dark, the guard also seems darkened. In old collections you sometimes see the use of shellack as a protective covering and over years it can turn very dark. Is there any chance the ivory handle was covered with shellack that has turned dark?

rand

Saracen · 18th November 2016, 11:46 PM

Фото 1 имеет много общего с этой темой

Photo 1 has a lot to do with this topic:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=Ariel

ariel · 23rd November 2016, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saracen

Photo 1 has a lot to do with this topic:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=Ariel

I think it is a valid and astute comment.

Any thoughts?

Likhari · 19th November 2016, 01:47 AM

The astute Mr. Milam is right as always !

This sword is in my collection. The handle is indeed ivory and it is covered with shellac that has darkened over the years.

BANDOOK · 19th November 2016, 09:26 AM

NAMASTE
GREETINGS FROM NEW ZEALAND LIKHARI,NICE SWORD,THE NAMES YOU MENTIONED ARE GREAT EXPERTS,I ALWAYS FOLLOW THEM TOO
BEST REGARDS RAJESH

mariusgmioc · 19th November 2016, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Likhari

The astute Mr. Milam is right as always !

This sword is in my collection. The handle is indeed ivory and it is covered with shellac that has darkened over the years.

Excellent workmanship! Can I see the whole sword please... so I can envy you more?!

The double horse is also yours? What is it?

Likhari · 19th November 2016, 04:01 PM

Here are some more examples. Some from Sotheby's.

The interesting elephant head handle would of course have been attached to a tulwar blade that would have been used as a sword worn to the royal court instead of a true battle sword as it would be too delicate for any rough use.

Jens Nordlunde · 19th November 2016, 04:26 PM

Welcome to the forum Likhari, and thank you for your kind words.

Like Marius mendtions, it would be nice to see, not only details of your weapons, but the whole weapons as well. I fact there is a rule on the forum, that no details should be discussed, before the whole weapon have been shown.
I know the rule is not always followed, but I think it is a good rule.

I have only one dagger with an ivory hilt, with an animal head, and the blade is not Indian, but more likely South Asian. See catalogue pp. 61-62 for further informations.

Likhari · 19th November 2016, 06:30 PM

The two horse handle belongs to a sword in the Prince of Wales Museum in Bombay photographed by Moin.

What is very interesting about this sword is the fact that it combines an iconographic representation of Nandaka (The Hindu God Vishnu) on the handle with an etching of what looks like the Ayatul Kursi in Arabic on the blade. Possibly a reuse of the blade but all the same it does show the composite culture of the Indian Subcontinent and represents exactly what makes the study of Arms and Armour so fascinating to me.

Jens Nordlunde · 19th November 2016, 09:15 PM

Yes it is interesting, but from where does the museum says it origins, and how old do they think it is?

You see, here on the forum we are all 'pupils', all of us try to learn something from each other, so it is important that all information's are told, or it would leed to very long discussions.

So please 'paint' it all out in details.

Jens

Likhari · 20th November 2016, 07:33 AM

Have you ever been inside an Indian museum Jens ? If you had been you would know that the provenance and period is not usually available for arms at such institutions.

I have painted the best picture I could with my meagre intelligence. Maybe with your abundant knowledge you can add something to the painting.

Likhari · 20th November 2016, 04:46 PM

The tiger head motif was quite popular on Indian weapons and had a special significance for Tipu Sultan. Here we have a carved ivory tulwar handle from Sotheby's with a tiger head on the pommel and also on the quillon tips

18th November 2016, 07:13 PM	#1
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 539	Sword The finely carved ivory handle on the sword seems to be very dark, the guard also seems darkened. In old collections you sometimes see the use of shellack as a protective covering and over years it can turn very dark. Is there any chance the ivory handle was covered with shellack that has turned dark? rand

19th November 2016, 04:01 PM	#7
Likhari Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: USA Posts: 34	Here are some more examples. Some from Sotheby's. The interesting elephant head handle would of course have been attached to a tulwar blade that would have been used as a sword worn to the royal court instead of a true battle sword as it would be too delicate for any rough use. Attached Images

19th November 2016, 04:26 PM	#8
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Welcome to the forum Likhari, and thank you for your kind words. Like Marius mendtions, it would be nice to see, not only details of your weapons, but the whole weapons as well. I fact there is a rule on the forum, that no details should be discussed, before the whole weapon have been shown. I know the rule is not always followed, but I think it is a good rule. I have only one dagger with an ivory hilt, with an animal head, and the blade is not Indian, but more likely South Asian. See catalogue pp. 61-62 for further informations. Attached Images

19th November 2016, 06:30 PM	#9
Likhari Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: USA Posts: 34	The two horse handle belongs to a sword in the Prince of Wales Museum in Bombay photographed by Moin. What is very interesting about this sword is the fact that it combines an iconographic representation of Nandaka (The Hindu God Vishnu) on the handle with an etching of what looks like the Ayatul Kursi in Arabic on the blade. Possibly a reuse of the blade but all the same it does show the composite culture of the Indian Subcontinent and represents exactly what makes the study of Arms and Armour so fascinating to me. Attached Images

20th November 2016, 04:46 PM	#12
Likhari Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: USA Posts: 34	The tiger head motif was quite popular on Indian weapons and had a special significance for Tipu Sultan. Here we have a carved ivory tulwar handle from Sotheby's with a tiger head on the pommel and also on the quillon tips Attached Images

18th November 2016, 11:46 PM	#2
Saracen Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 147	Фото 1 имеет много общего с этой темой Photo 1 has a lot to do with this topic: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=Ariel

19th November 2016, 01:47 AM	#4
Likhari Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: USA Posts: 34	The astute Mr. Milam is right as always ! This sword is in my collection. The handle is indeed ivory and it is covered with shellac that has darkened over the years.

19th November 2016, 09:26 AM	#5
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 627	NAMASTE GREETINGS FROM NEW ZEALAND LIKHARI,NICE SWORD,THE NAMES YOU MENTIONED ARE GREAT EXPERTS,I ALWAYS FOLLOW THEM TOO BEST REGARDS RAJESH

19th November 2016, 09:15 PM	#10
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Yes it is interesting, but from where does the museum says it origins, and how old do they think it is? You see, here on the forum we are all 'pupils', all of us try to learn something from each other, so it is important that all information's are told, or it would leed to very long discussions. So please 'paint' it all out in details. Jens

20th November 2016, 07:33 AM	#11
Likhari Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: USA Posts: 34	Have you ever been inside an Indian museum Jens ? If you had been you would know that the provenance and period is not usually available for arms at such institutions. I have painted the best picture I could with my meagre intelligence. Maybe with your abundant knowledge you can add something to the painting.