Ottoman breast plate for comments

Skarts_ss · 16th October 2016, 10:56 AM

Hi all. Not something special but interesting though....any comments are welcome. The chain mail must be a later period. Any thoughts?

Oliver Pinchot · 19th October 2016, 09:32 PM

Interesting, in that it varies from the norm. Typically, these armors
are chiseled with a continuous series of grooves which radiate from a central hub, and run to within 1cm of the edge. This one appears to have been made privately, perhaps by a culture influenced by the Ottoman, but not of it.

TVV · 19th October 2016, 10:19 PM

On the second picture there is a vague arsenal stamp: St. Irene? If so, that would make it very Ottoman I guess.

Teodor

Oliver Pinchot · 19th October 2016, 10:28 PM

It would mean simply that it was deposited at the St. Irene's arsenal at one time or another; captured arms as well as Ottoman were stored there in profusion.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 19th October 2016, 10:56 PM

Forum has very little coverage of Armour and I thought to put that right. I would like to float a few items in broad support of this thread and see where that goes thus in the end produce a sizeable collection overall on the styles of armoured suits, footwear, helmets, shields, and also Horses armour to give a general picture of the subject... So in no particular order here goes;

Battara · 20th October 2016, 12:10 AM

I like it. I especially love Ottoman helmets! Thanks and zukran!

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 20th October 2016, 06:43 PM

From Wikepedia it statesQuote" The lobster-tailed pot helmet had an oriental origin, being derived from the Ottoman Turkish 'chichak' (Turkish - çiçek) helmet, which developed in the 16th century. It was adopted by the Christian states of Europe in the early 17th century. The chichak was almost identical to the later European helmets - it had a forward projecting peak, sliding bar nasal, cheekpieces and neck guard; only its tendency to have a conical rather than rounded skull was distinctive.[1] The European derivative of this helmet saw widespread use during the Thirty Years War when it became known as the zischägge, a Germanisation of the original Turkish name.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 20th October 2016, 06:46 PM

More Helmets Ottoman...

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 20th October 2016, 07:33 PM

The Ottomans used a special kind of armour called Krug; This was mirror armour and had talismanic beliefs attached to the idea that highly polished or Mirror armour could reflect the evil eye...arrows etc...

Oliver Pinchot · 20th October 2016, 08:42 PM

Note that the last helmet shown above is a modern copy

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 20th October 2016, 11:12 PM

Salaams and Thank you Oliver and on reflection it does have a lot of sharp edges and no wear ...
Regards,
Ibrahiim Al Balooshi.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 20th October 2016, 11:47 PM

Horse Armour.

Skarts_ss · 21st October 2016, 01:01 PM

Thank you all for your replies, however i believe it is an ottoman simpler form of breast plate. Im sure that all these ottoman soldiers couldnt afford such an armour you have posted up here. Also in museums only the best pieces are on display. It is exactly the same as weapons decoration.

Oliver Pinchot · 21st October 2016, 04:37 PM

The top left chanfron is also a modern copy, ya karim.
It's fine to show these for comparison, but they should not be taken as
authentic.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 21st October 2016, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver Pinchot

The top left chanfron is also a modern copy, ya karim.
It's fine to show these for comparison, but they should not be taken as
authentic.

You are right. In fact I almost feel it relevant to have one of these new copies attached to posts so that people can see what modern copies look like thus I think it a good idea to deliberately add a copy in these renditions...( not that it was deliberate ~ I completely missed it

) It is clearly ultra pointed and shows no wear in the same way as the first item ... Thank you for nailing this one. Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 21st October 2016, 07:52 PM

Some further considerations...Note the shin armour sometimes mixed up with vambrace arm armour...

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 21st October 2016, 07:55 PM

Shields... often made with wicker / bamboo and wound with silk...

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 21st October 2016, 08:56 PM

AN EXPERTLY WRITTEN WORK EXISTS FREE ON THE WEB AT~ https://books.google.com.om/books?id...ELMETS&f=false

The above work covers everything so far and in minute detail alongside beautiful illustrations... It is far reaching dealing with the similar items in Russian, Persian, Indian, and other works in the Regions...

Battara · 21st October 2016, 09:21 PM

I love the helmets and shields!!!

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 21st October 2016, 11:26 PM

Here I switch to the first of what I call an Ethnographic history...of the Ottomans... the siege of Vienna. This was the second attempt and one of the greatest sieges in history.. I therefor redirect your focus to a sizeable read but one which is filled with action at http://defence.pk/threads/battle-rep....386899/page-1 in two parts. Parts 1 and 2 are easily accessible at the top of the webpage.

16th October 2016, 10:56 AM	#1
Skarts_ss Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 47	Ottoman breast plate for comments Hi all. Not something special but interesting though....any comments are welcome. The chain mail must be a later period. Any thoughts? Attached Images

19th October 2016, 10:56 PM	#5
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Forum has very little coverage of Armour and I thought to put that right. I would like to float a few items in broad support of this thread and see where that goes thus in the end produce a sizeable collection overall on the styles of armoured suits, footwear, helmets, shields, and also Horses armour to give a general picture of the subject... So in no particular order here goes; Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 19th October 2016 at 11:39 PM.

20th October 2016, 06:43 PM	#7
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	From Wikepedia it statesQuote" The lobster-tailed pot helmet had an oriental origin, being derived from the Ottoman Turkish 'chichak' (Turkish - çiçek) helmet, which developed in the 16th century. It was adopted by the Christian states of Europe in the early 17th century. The chichak was almost identical to the later European helmets - it had a forward projecting peak, sliding bar nasal, cheekpieces and neck guard; only its tendency to have a conical rather than rounded skull was distinctive.[1] The European derivative of this helmet saw widespread use during the Thirty Years War when it became known as the zischägge, a Germanisation of the original Turkish name. Attached Images

20th October 2016, 06:46 PM	#8
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	More Helmets Ottoman... Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 20th October 2016 at 07:22 PM.

20th October 2016, 07:33 PM	#9
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	The Ottomans used a special kind of armour called Krug; This was mirror armour and had talismanic beliefs attached to the idea that highly polished or Mirror armour could reflect the evil eye...arrows etc... Attached Images

19th October 2016, 09:32 PM	#2
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 457	Interesting, in that it varies from the norm. Typically, these armors are chiseled with a continuous series of grooves which radiate from a central hub, and run to within 1cm of the edge. This one appears to have been made privately, perhaps by a culture influenced by the Ottoman, but not of it.

19th October 2016, 10:19 PM	#3
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,620	On the second picture there is a vague arsenal stamp: St. Irene? If so, that would make it very Ottoman I guess. Teodor

19th October 2016, 10:28 PM	#4
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 457	It would mean simply that it was deposited at the St. Irene's arsenal at one time or another; captured arms as well as Ottoman were stored there in profusion.

20th October 2016, 12:10 AM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	I like it. I especially love Ottoman helmets! Thanks and zukran!

20th October 2016, 08:42 PM	#10
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 457	Note that the last helmet shown above is a modern copy

20th October 2016, 11:12 PM	#11
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams and Thank you Oliver and on reflection it does have a lot of sharp edges and no wear ... Regards, Ibrahiim Al Balooshi.

20th October 2016, 11:47 PM	#12
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Horse Armour. Attached Images

21st October 2016, 01:01 PM	#13
Skarts_ss Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 47	Thank you all for your replies, however i believe it is an ottoman simpler form of breast plate. Im sure that all these ottoman soldiers couldnt afford such an armour you have posted up here. Also in museums only the best pieces are on display. It is exactly the same as weapons decoration.

21st October 2016, 04:37 PM	#14
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 457	The top left chanfron is also a modern copy, ya karim. It's fine to show these for comparison, but they should not be taken as authentic.

21st October 2016, 07:52 PM	#16
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Some further considerations...Note the shin armour sometimes mixed up with vambrace arm armour... Attached Images

21st October 2016, 07:55 PM	#17
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Shields... often made with wicker / bamboo and wound with silk... Attached Images

21st October 2016, 08:56 PM	#18
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	AN EXPERTLY WRITTEN WORK EXISTS FREE ON THE WEB AT~ https://books.google.com.om/books?id...ELMETS&f=false The above work covers everything so far and in minute detail alongside beautiful illustrations... It is far reaching dealing with the similar items in Russian, Persian, Indian, and other works in the Regions... Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 21st October 2016 at 09:07 PM.

21st October 2016, 09:21 PM	#19
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	I love the helmets and shields!!!

21st October 2016, 11:26 PM	#20
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Battle Report #17 :Vienna 1683. Here I switch to the first of what I call an Ethnographic history...of the Ottomans... the siege of Vienna. This was the second attempt and one of the greatest sieges in history.. I therefor redirect your focus to a sizeable read but one which is filled with action at http://defence.pk/threads/battle-rep....386899/page-1 in two parts. Parts 1 and 2 are easily accessible at the top of the webpage. Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 22nd October 2016 at 12:18 AM.