THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A MOROCCAN AND A ZANZIBARI NIMCHA.

kronckew · 20th October 2016, 08:40 AM

found this interesting video of the moroccan sport of tbourida

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHdKvm_ztMM

search youtube on 'tbourida' for even more

it shows some of the teams wearing 'nimcha' (and 'saif') sabres, harnessed across their backs, hilt down by the hip and scabbard chape sticking up over their right shoulder. some cool weapons...

tbourida 'accessories':

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 21st October 2016, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

found this interesting video of the moroccan sport of tbourida

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHdKvm_ztMM

search youtube on 'tbourida' for even more

it shows some of the teams wearing 'nimcha' (and 'saif') sabres, harnessed across their backs, hilt down by the hip and scabbard chape sticking up over their right shoulder. some cool weapons...

tbourida 'accessories':

Salaams Kronkew~ and thank you for the excellent detail regarding the Tbourida . These Barb horses famous for centuries in Morocco are amazing...see https://sg.news.yahoo.com/tradition-...002401450.html

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 30th July 2017, 02:32 AM

Placing this weapon for library from The JF Kennedy Presidential Library and Museum;

Accession Number: MO 63.1513 Collection:
Gifts from Heads of State
Title: Nimcha Sword and Sheath Maker: Maker unknown Date(s) of Materials: 19th century Place Made: Morocco Medium: Silver, wood, steel Dimensions: 42" Description: Sword with hilt and silver knuckle guard, which is formed by a long turned down quillon. The grip is composed of fluted wood. The sheath is covered with chased silver plating. The steel blade is slightly curved. Gifter: Moulay Hamid Alaoui, Pacha of Kenitra, Morocco Copyright Status: Donated to the United States Digital Identifier: JFKSG-MO-1963-1513 Subject(s):
Gifts
Heads of state

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 30th July 2017, 02:52 AM

Tipu Sultan The Lion of Mysore had among his many weapons in his private armoury this Moroccan Nimcha with probably a blade from the Caucasus according to the report in French at http://www.tessier-sarrou.com/html/f...rdre=&aff=5&r=

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 30th July 2017, 03:18 AM

An item not always noted in Moroccan swords is the strap or Baldric on which it hangs off the shoulder seen here and at #61; This was followed by Muslim soldiers because their leader, The Prophet, wore his sword in the same fashion.

See fig 1 at https://books.google.com.om/books?id...aldric&f=false

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 4th August 2017, 10:32 AM

During the early Islamic years, the Arabs sheathed their weapons in baldrics. The use of sword and baldric was consciously abandoned by the Abbasid caliph al-Mutawakkil (847-861) in favor of the saber and belt. But the use of sword and baldric seems to have retained a ceremonial and religious significance. For example, the Zangid ruler Nur ad-Din (1146-74) was anxious to demonstrate that he was a pious traditionalist, searching out the old methods preferred by the Prophet. Consequently, among his reforms he re-adopted the custom of wearing a sword suspended from a baldric. His successor Salah ad-Din (1138-1193), known in the west as Saladin, did the same and it is noteworthy that he was buried with his sword, he took it with him to Paradise.

The Baldric in the high mount was used by the Prophet and that was why the invaders from the Moroccan Berber side used it in the same way.
So I was pondering the question of Zanzibari and Moroccan Nimchas.. and in particular the key element of the knuckle-guard which you will recall is completely different with a broad right angle at the base of the Moroccan and a bulbous rounded knuckle-guard bend at the base in the Zanzibar example.

In the Moroccan. See the artwork below. The requirement was for a shoulder strap Baldric mounting so that when riding into battle the sword was firmly held up on the left rib cage area under the left arm region...and flat against the body formed by the horsehead broad grip and the big right angled knuckleguard and quillons so the weapon was firm and safe... In this position the rider could operate his long barrel gun and gallop hard onwards... The sword til needed was safe against his body.
When dismounted, See Artwork below, he could retain that carry or opt for the long drag position placing the hilt about between his hip and knee where his draw hand could reach.. Thus they used the Baldric in its two styles.
Insofar as the Pommel top; a decorated or simple button was used or even a decorative geometric fish.

In the Zanzibari Not the same ...They used the weapon from a sash belt or basic waist belt...They didn't ride horses into battle. No need for the right angle knuckle-guard base moreover a need for a smooth uncluttered draw...The rounded knuckle guard bend seems logical.
Insofar as the Pommel top button the pattern shape of the Turtle was used in the Zanzibari type but only there.

In development from one region to another it is suggested that the older history comes from the Moroccan sphere so that the weapon must have stepped from North Africa across the Sahara by camel train or by ship around the Cape or down the Red Sea and to Zanzibar. Other forms are witnessed in the Red Sea region and it is unclear if they had bounced off Zanzibar or entered these places direct from North Africa.... probably the former. Either way the weapon diffused from Morocco to Zanzibar.

Blade and Scabbard development appears to be very distinctly different with beautiful Magrebi cloisonne and gold and silver inscribed Quranic verses lavishly adorning the North African version whilst Red Sea / Yemeni or Indian plain blades seem to populate Zanzibari Nimcha. In one style of Omani Zanzibari ornate hand carved Ivory hilts beautifully plated with golden decor may be a VIP weapon or Court Sword; See Below.

Gonzalo G · 5th August 2017, 07:08 AM

It is a pity that the historical evidence does not support this complicated hypothesis (better call it assumption). Swords with cuphilts, laces, circular knuckleguards, protective rings, etc., were carried by a baldric on horse, without problem. See the way in wich the Spaniards carried their rapiers: they used baldrics, and the swords can be accomodated by the lenght of the baldric. I think that the form of the knuckleguard of the Moroccan Nimcha was a matter of fashion, though I admit that the rounded knuckleguard allows for a more easy grasp.

20th October 2016, 08:40 AM	#1
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,224	found this interesting video of the moroccan sport of tbourida https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHdKvm_ztMM search youtube on 'tbourida' for even more it shows some of the teams wearing 'nimcha' (and 'saif') sabres, harnessed across their backs, hilt down by the hip and scabbard chape sticking up over their right shoulder. some cool weapons... tbourida 'accessories': Attached Images

30th July 2017, 02:32 AM	#3
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Placing this weapon for library from The JF Kennedy Presidential Library and Museum; Accession Number: MO 63.1513 Collection: Gifts from Heads of State Title: Nimcha Sword and Sheath Maker: Maker unknown Date(s) of Materials: 19th century Place Made: Morocco Medium: Silver, wood, steel Dimensions: 42" Description: Sword with hilt and silver knuckle guard, which is formed by a long turned down quillon. The grip is composed of fluted wood. The sheath is covered with chased silver plating. The steel blade is slightly curved. Gifter: Moulay Hamid Alaoui, Pacha of Kenitra, Morocco Copyright Status: Donated to the United States Digital Identifier: JFKSG-MO-1963-1513 Subject(s): Gifts Heads of state Attached Images

30th July 2017, 02:52 AM	#4
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Tipu Sultan The Lion of Mysore had among his many weapons in his private armoury this Moroccan Nimcha with probably a blade from the Caucasus according to the report in French at http://www.tessier-sarrou.com/html/f...rdre=&aff=5&r= Attached Images

30th July 2017, 03:18 AM	#5
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	An item not always noted in Moroccan swords is the strap or Baldric on which it hangs off the shoulder seen here and at #61; This was followed by Muslim soldiers because their leader, The Prophet, wore his sword in the same fashion. See fig 1 at https://books.google.com.om/books?id...aldric&f=false Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 30th July 2017 at 03:45 AM.

4th August 2017, 10:32 AM	#6
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	The Baldric. During the early Islamic years, the Arabs sheathed their weapons in baldrics. The use of sword and baldric was consciously abandoned by the Abbasid caliph al-Mutawakkil (847-861) in favor of the saber and belt. But the use of sword and baldric seems to have retained a ceremonial and religious significance. For example, the Zangid ruler Nur ad-Din (1146-74) was anxious to demonstrate that he was a pious traditionalist, searching out the old methods preferred by the Prophet. Consequently, among his reforms he re-adopted the custom of wearing a sword suspended from a baldric. His successor Salah ad-Din (1138-1193), known in the west as Saladin, did the same and it is noteworthy that he was buried with his sword, he took it with him to Paradise. The Baldric in the high mount was used by the Prophet and that was why the invaders from the Moroccan Berber side used it in the same way. So I was pondering the question of Zanzibari and Moroccan Nimchas.. and in particular the key element of the knuckle-guard which you will recall is completely different with a broad right angle at the base of the Moroccan and a bulbous rounded knuckle-guard bend at the base in the Zanzibar example. In the Moroccan. See the artwork below. The requirement was for a shoulder strap Baldric mounting so that when riding into battle the sword was firmly held up on the left rib cage area under the left arm region...and flat against the body formed by the horsehead broad grip and the big right angled knuckleguard and quillons so the weapon was firm and safe... In this position the rider could operate his long barrel gun and gallop hard onwards... The sword til needed was safe against his body. When dismounted, See Artwork below, he could retain that carry or opt for the long drag position placing the hilt about between his hip and knee where his draw hand could reach.. Thus they used the Baldric in its two styles. Insofar as the Pommel top; a decorated or simple button was used or even a decorative geometric fish. In the Zanzibari Not the same ...They used the weapon from a sash belt or basic waist belt...They didn't ride horses into battle. No need for the right angle knuckle-guard base moreover a need for a smooth uncluttered draw...The rounded knuckle guard bend seems logical. Insofar as the Pommel top button the pattern shape of the Turtle was used in the Zanzibari type but only there. In development from one region to another it is suggested that the older history comes from the Moroccan sphere so that the weapon must have stepped from North Africa across the Sahara by camel train or by ship around the Cape or down the Red Sea and to Zanzibar. Other forms are witnessed in the Red Sea region and it is unclear if they had bounced off Zanzibar or entered these places direct from North Africa.... probably the former. Either way the weapon diffused from Morocco to Zanzibar. Blade and Scabbard development appears to be very distinctly different with beautiful Magrebi cloisonne and gold and silver inscribed Quranic verses lavishly adorning the North African version whilst Red Sea / Yemeni or Indian plain blades seem to populate Zanzibari Nimcha. In one style of Omani Zanzibari ornate hand carved Ivory hilts beautifully plated with golden decor may be a VIP weapon or Court Sword; See Below. Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 4th August 2017 at 12:53 PM.

5th August 2017, 07:08 AM	#7
Gonzalo G Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Nothern Mexico Posts: 458	It is a pity that the historical evidence does not support this complicated hypothesis (better call it assumption). Swords with cuphilts, laces, circular knuckleguards, protective rings, etc., were carried by a baldric on horse, without problem. See the way in wich the Spaniards carried their rapiers: they used baldrics, and the swords can be accomodated by the lenght of the baldric. I think that the form of the knuckleguard of the Moroccan Nimcha was a matter of fashion, though I admit that the rounded knuckleguard allows for a more easy grasp.