Any Amazon collectors?

VANDOO · 23rd September 2016, 09:54 PM

HERE IS A PALM WOOD SPEAR WITH A BONE TIP. IT IS SIMILAR TO SOME POSTED PREVIOUSLY ONE IS THE FIRST POST ON PAGE 2 OF THIS TOPIC.
#1. TWO METERS LONG, PALM WOOD, BONE POINT, FIBER WRAP WITH FEATHERS,BRAZIL, ARAGUAYA RIVER
TIM I LOOK FORWARD TO PICTURES OF THE NEW CLUB.

Tim Simmons · 16th October 2016, 08:25 AM

Update, not long now finally on the long journey to me. For the time being some interesting info on conflict in the early to mid 20th century.

https://pib.socioambiental.org/en/povo/kaiabi/273

Tim Simmons · 21st October 2016, 11:50 AM

I have it. Is nice. The only fly in the ointment is two screw hole damage where it has been mounted on a display board. I can sort that out. Made of a palm wood and stained black. 114 cm long. I wonder why, as with similar form clubs from different people of the same local, there is a carved concave curve to one side of the distal end? I suppose we will never know? I am showing it next to two Fijian clubs it illustrate the value for money Amazon clubs are. They may not have the collector desire glossy patina but there are a lot less of them.

VANDOO · 21st October 2016, 06:28 PM

NICE ONE TIM, I ESPECIALLY LIKE THAT THE WOVEN FIBER IS INTACT. AS TO THE CONCAVE SIDE AT THE CLUBS STRIKING END MANY TYPES OF PALM TREE HAVE A HARD OUTER PART TO THE TRUNK WITH A SOFTER INNER PART. THAT'S JUST THE OPPOSITE OF MOST HARD WOOD TREES WHICH ARE DICOTS. IF I AM CORRECT PALM TREES FALL INTO THE MONOCOT TYPE. IT COULD HAVE BEEN MADE THAT WAY TO USE FOR SCOOPING SOMETHING IF THEY USED WAR CLUBS FOR MULTI- PURPOSE TOOLS I MAY AS WELL LINK THE OTHER THREAD ON SOUTH AMERICAN CLUBS TO THIS ONE TOO.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21882

HERE ARE SOME PICTURES OF ANOTHER FORM OF SOUTH AMERICAN CLUB POSSIBLY FROM THE APARI OR WAYANA TRIBES. BRAZIL REGION ALONG THE PARU DE LESTE RIVER. A TYPE OF CLUB USED BY SHAMAN THE CLUB IS CALLED KAPARU.
#1. FIRST CLUB NOT MINE SIZE UNKNOWN BUT LIKELY OF SIMILAR AGE AND SIZE AS #2. .
#2, #3. MY CLUB 24 AND ONE QUARTER INCHES LONG CARVED DESIGNS BOTH SIDES, COTTON CORDS
#4. SIMILAR CLUB AND DESIGN MORE RECENT EXAMPLE WITH PIG TEETH ADDED AND PAINTED BLACK.MINE 29.5 INCHES LONG.
#5. & #6. COLLECTED FROM THE TRIBE ALONG THE PARU DE LESTE RIVER, 31 AND THREE QUARTERS INCH LONG, 6 IN. WIDE. LATE 1990'S FEATURED IN A DISPLAY AT THE SAINT LOUIS MUSEUM. I BOUGHT THE CLUB FROM THE COLLECTOR/ DEALER MR. GRIMM IN 2013. MR. GRIMM SUPPLIED QUITE A LOT OF MUSEUMS WITH THEIR COLLECTIONS AND DID SOME EXHIBITS AND AUCTIONED A LARGE AMOUNT OF SOUTH AMERICAN TRIBAL ITEMS. ARTEPRIMITIVO HAD SOME CATALOGS FULL OF A WIDE RANGE OF THE THINGS HE COLLECTED AND ARE A GOOD REFERENCE. HE WAS ROBBED AND KILLED IN BRAZIL AROUND 2014 ON HIS 93 RD. COLLECTING EXPEDITION. I LOST A FRIEND AND WE ALL LOST A TRUE EXPERT AND A LOT OF KNOWLEDGE AS WELL. HE WAS MARRIED TO A MEMBER OF THE YANAMO TRIBE AND HAD VISITED MANY VILLAGES AND TRIBES OVER THE YEARS. THE MOST DANGEROUS JUNGLES IN BRAZIL LIKE THE U.S.A. ARE THE CITIES AND THAT IS WHERE HE LOST HIS LIFE.

Tim Simmons · 23rd October 2016, 11:13 AM

Barry, I do not think the hollow at the distal end is due to the pith under the hard wood of palm timber. You can see from these new pictures rather bright as the flash was on, that the hollow is within the hard wood being virtually a continuation of the main solid club. There must be some other reason for this feature? Also the strange pointy tip on the convex side. Interesting similaities between the Kayabi club and the Ikpeng club. Both made of palm wood, though they are different palm timbers. The Kayabi is a lighter brown timber and although a larger club at 1.433kg. The Ikpeng club smaller, of a dark brown to black timber is 1.628kg. Like combatants in other parts of the world. Conflicts are fought with very similar weapons of differing styles.

Interesting extract about conflict and contact.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/2020374...n_tab_contents

The black and white aerial photo of Kayabi village was taken 1958.

KuKulzA28 · 27th October 2016, 05:32 PM

Reminds me of the cross-section of many Dayak parangs, concave on the inside. Maybe it improves the chopping potential of the club if used to strike on a particular trajectory? After all these bladed clubs were intended to chop into the opponent rather than just bludgeon them. Cleaner bone breaks and perhaps a little cleaving into the flesh.

Shipibo and "Kayapo" clubs don't feature this - but then again that means they'll be easily used to strike on any practical swing.

Tim Simmons · 9th November 2016, 05:33 PM

Nice examples found here- http://fotoweb.pesquisakino.com:8080...arch=pesquisar

23rd September 2016, 09:54 PM	#1
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	HERE IS A PALM WOOD SPEAR WITH A BONE TIP. IT IS SIMILAR TO SOME POSTED PREVIOUSLY ONE IS THE FIRST POST ON PAGE 2 OF THIS TOPIC. #1. TWO METERS LONG, PALM WOOD, BONE POINT, FIBER WRAP WITH FEATHERS,BRAZIL, ARAGUAYA RIVER TIM I LOOK FORWARD TO PICTURES OF THE NEW CLUB. Attached Images

16th October 2016, 08:25 AM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	Update, not long now finally on the long journey to me. For the time being some interesting info on conflict in the early to mid 20th century. https://pib.socioambiental.org/en/povo/kaiabi/273 Last edited by Tim Simmons; 16th October 2016 at 08:37 AM.

21st October 2016, 11:50 AM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	I have it. Is nice. The only fly in the ointment is two screw hole damage where it has been mounted on a display board. I can sort that out. Made of a palm wood and stained black. 114 cm long. I wonder why, as with similar form clubs from different people of the same local, there is a carved concave curve to one side of the distal end? I suppose we will never know? I am showing it next to two Fijian clubs it illustrate the value for money Amazon clubs are. They may not have the collector desire glossy patina but there are a lot less of them. Attached Images

21st October 2016, 06:28 PM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	NICE ONE TIM, I ESPECIALLY LIKE THAT THE WOVEN FIBER IS INTACT. AS TO THE CONCAVE SIDE AT THE CLUBS STRIKING END MANY TYPES OF PALM TREE HAVE A HARD OUTER PART TO THE TRUNK WITH A SOFTER INNER PART. THAT'S JUST THE OPPOSITE OF MOST HARD WOOD TREES WHICH ARE DICOTS. IF I AM CORRECT PALM TREES FALL INTO THE MONOCOT TYPE. IT COULD HAVE BEEN MADE THAT WAY TO USE FOR SCOOPING SOMETHING IF THEY USED WAR CLUBS FOR MULTI- PURPOSE TOOLS I MAY AS WELL LINK THE OTHER THREAD ON SOUTH AMERICAN CLUBS TO THIS ONE TOO. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21882 HERE ARE SOME PICTURES OF ANOTHER FORM OF SOUTH AMERICAN CLUB POSSIBLY FROM THE APARI OR WAYANA TRIBES. BRAZIL REGION ALONG THE PARU DE LESTE RIVER. A TYPE OF CLUB USED BY SHAMAN THE CLUB IS CALLED KAPARU. #1. FIRST CLUB NOT MINE SIZE UNKNOWN BUT LIKELY OF SIMILAR AGE AND SIZE AS #2. . #2, #3. MY CLUB 24 AND ONE QUARTER INCHES LONG CARVED DESIGNS BOTH SIDES, COTTON CORDS #4. SIMILAR CLUB AND DESIGN MORE RECENT EXAMPLE WITH PIG TEETH ADDED AND PAINTED BLACK.MINE 29.5 INCHES LONG. #5. & #6. COLLECTED FROM THE TRIBE ALONG THE PARU DE LESTE RIVER, 31 AND THREE QUARTERS INCH LONG, 6 IN. WIDE. LATE 1990'S FEATURED IN A DISPLAY AT THE SAINT LOUIS MUSEUM. I BOUGHT THE CLUB FROM THE COLLECTOR/ DEALER MR. GRIMM IN 2013. MR. GRIMM SUPPLIED QUITE A LOT OF MUSEUMS WITH THEIR COLLECTIONS AND DID SOME EXHIBITS AND AUCTIONED A LARGE AMOUNT OF SOUTH AMERICAN TRIBAL ITEMS. ARTEPRIMITIVO HAD SOME CATALOGS FULL OF A WIDE RANGE OF THE THINGS HE COLLECTED AND ARE A GOOD REFERENCE. HE WAS ROBBED AND KILLED IN BRAZIL AROUND 2014 ON HIS 93 RD. COLLECTING EXPEDITION. I LOST A FRIEND AND WE ALL LOST A TRUE EXPERT AND A LOT OF KNOWLEDGE AS WELL. HE WAS MARRIED TO A MEMBER OF THE YANAMO TRIBE AND HAD VISITED MANY VILLAGES AND TRIBES OVER THE YEARS. THE MOST DANGEROUS JUNGLES IN BRAZIL LIKE THE U.S.A. ARE THE CITIES AND THAT IS WHERE HE LOST HIS LIFE. Attached Images Last edited by VANDOO; 22nd October 2016 at 12:00 AM.

23rd October 2016, 11:13 AM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	Barry, I do not think the hollow at the distal end is due to the pith under the hard wood of palm timber. You can see from these new pictures rather bright as the flash was on, that the hollow is within the hard wood being virtually a continuation of the main solid club. There must be some other reason for this feature? Also the strange pointy tip on the convex side. Interesting similaities between the Kayabi club and the Ikpeng club. Both made of palm wood, though they are different palm timbers. The Kayabi is a lighter brown timber and although a larger club at 1.433kg. The Ikpeng club smaller, of a dark brown to black timber is 1.628kg. Like combatants in other parts of the world. Conflicts are fought with very similar weapons of differing styles. Interesting extract about conflict and contact. https://www.jstor.org/stable/2020374...n_tab_contents The black and white aerial photo of Kayabi village was taken 1958. Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 23rd October 2016 at 04:36 PM.

27th October 2016, 05:32 PM	#6
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	Reminds me of the cross-section of many Dayak parangs, concave on the inside. Maybe it improves the chopping potential of the club if used to strike on a particular trajectory? After all these bladed clubs were intended to chop into the opponent rather than just bludgeon them. Cleaner bone breaks and perhaps a little cleaving into the flesh. Shipibo and "Kayapo" clubs don't feature this - but then again that means they'll be easily used to strike on any practical swing.

9th November 2016, 05:33 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	Nice examples found here- http://fotoweb.pesquisakino.com:8080...arch=pesquisar