Mandau handle-connection to campilon handle

DaveS · 30th August 2016, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver Pinchot

Dave, since your question addresses form, I think it would be useful to include a Murut hilt as well.

Oliver: I don't know. Somehow to my eye anyway, a Murut hilt just does not look anything like a campilon hilt. I'll have to dig out the pakayun i have and take another good look..........Dave.

VANDOO · 30th August 2016, 04:48 PM

I THINK THE CONNECTION IS THAT MANY WEAPONS WITH FORKED HANDLES MAY COME FROM THE SAME INSTINCTIVE AND TRADITIONAL WAY MANKIND THINKS AND REPRESENTS THINGS IN HIS ART AND CRAFT. ONE SUCH THING IS DANGEROUS ANIMALS BOTH REAL AND MYTHOLOGICAL ARE OFTEN REPRESENTED WITH THEIR MOUTHS OPEN. DRAGONS, LIONS, TIGERS, CROCODILES AND SUCH ARE MORE OFTEN SHOWING THEIR TEETH THAN NOT. A SWORD POMMEL MAY REPRESENT MANY THINGS USUALLY SOMETHING RESPECTED, FEARED OR BELIEVED TO HAVE SPECIAL POWERS. THE OPEN MOUTHED DRAGON SHOWS POWER AND THE THREAT IT IS GOING TO EAT UP THE ENEMY. NO DOUBT SOME BELIEVES IT GIVES THE WIELDER SOME OF THE CREATURES POWER. IT IS A SIGH OF POWER OR RESPECT AND OFTEN A TOTEM OR SOMETHING RESPECTED AND REVERED BY THE SOCIETY OR WARRIOR. FEARSOME WARRIORS USUALLY DIDN'T FAVOR MICE OR WORMS TO DECORATE THEIR SWORDS.

THERE ARE OTHER DESIGNS ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU GET AWAY FROM PRIMITIVE GROUPS THAT OFTEN REPRESENT HERALDRY, AND SUCH BUT OFTEN FIERCE BEASTS ARE REPRESENTED THERE AS WELL, GRIFFINS, LIONS, UNICORNS AND DRAGONS ABOUND THERE AS WELL AS THISTLES AND FLORAL DESIGNS. THE FORKED POMMEL ALSO HELPS KEEP THE SWORD FIRMLY IN HAND AND FORKED WOOD AND ANTLERS WERE CONVENIENT MATERIALS.

CharlesS · 30th August 2016, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveS

Oliver: I don't know. Somehow to my eye anyway, a Murut hilt just does not look anything like a campilon hilt. I'll have to dig out the pakayun i have and take another good look..........Dave.

I think Oliver is referring to the perception of an "open jaw" that the pommel may be perceived to form.

Battara · 30th August 2016, 08:30 PM

There might be a possible connection, but that would go way back to the early 16th century, where we have Spanish illustrations of Tagalogs, etc with "open mouth" hilts. This might be a general Austronesian motif at one time. It would appear that later only those on Borneo, Mindanao, and Suliwesi used the kampilan.

kai · 31st August 2016, 12:10 AM

Hello Jose,

Quote:

There might be a possible connection, but that would go way back to the early 16th century, where we have Spanish illustrations of Tagalogs, etc with "open mouth" hilts. This might be a general Austronesian motif at one time. It would appear that later only those on Borneo, Mindanao, and Suliwesi used the kampilan.

The kampilan seems pretty much limited to a tribal group and pops up where their seafarers went...

OTOH, the underlying theme of open-jaw hilts seems pervasive throughout pretty much the whole SEA archipelago (notable are the rare Toraja variants from Sulawesi for obviously depicting animal heads; too many more abstract types from all over Indonesia to mention but many definitely linked to such an origin by etymology and symbolism.

Also mandau hilts tend to exhibit lots of open jaws in their carvings; OTOH, I hardly see the tendency to carve/decorate the standard "branch" to make it appear jaw-like per se. Thus, I rather doubt there is a direct relationship/link.

BTW, possibly the same could be argued for the kampilan as well: the old-style hilt types are not very convincing in displaying an open jaw, too.

Regards,
Kai

30th August 2016, 04:48 PM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I THINK THE CONNECTION IS THAT MANY WEAPONS WITH FORKED HANDLES MAY COME FROM THE SAME INSTINCTIVE AND TRADITIONAL WAY MANKIND THINKS AND REPRESENTS THINGS IN HIS ART AND CRAFT. ONE SUCH THING IS DANGEROUS ANIMALS BOTH REAL AND MYTHOLOGICAL ARE OFTEN REPRESENTED WITH THEIR MOUTHS OPEN. DRAGONS, LIONS, TIGERS, CROCODILES AND SUCH ARE MORE OFTEN SHOWING THEIR TEETH THAN NOT. A SWORD POMMEL MAY REPRESENT MANY THINGS USUALLY SOMETHING RESPECTED, FEARED OR BELIEVED TO HAVE SPECIAL POWERS. THE OPEN MOUTHED DRAGON SHOWS POWER AND THE THREAT IT IS GOING TO EAT UP THE ENEMY. NO DOUBT SOME BELIEVES IT GIVES THE WIELDER SOME OF THE CREATURES POWER. IT IS A SIGH OF POWER OR RESPECT AND OFTEN A TOTEM OR SOMETHING RESPECTED AND REVERED BY THE SOCIETY OR WARRIOR. FEARSOME WARRIORS USUALLY DIDN'T FAVOR MICE OR WORMS TO DECORATE THEIR SWORDS. THERE ARE OTHER DESIGNS ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU GET AWAY FROM PRIMITIVE GROUPS THAT OFTEN REPRESENT HERALDRY, AND SUCH BUT OFTEN FIERCE BEASTS ARE REPRESENTED THERE AS WELL, GRIFFINS, LIONS, UNICORNS AND DRAGONS ABOUND THERE AS WELL AS THISTLES AND FLORAL DESIGNS. THE FORKED POMMEL ALSO HELPS KEEP THE SWORD FIRMLY IN HAND AND FORKED WOOD AND ANTLERS WERE CONVENIENT MATERIALS.

30th August 2016, 08:30 PM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,270	There might be a possible connection, but that would go way back to the early 16th century, where we have Spanish illustrations of Tagalogs, etc with "open mouth" hilts. This might be a general Austronesian motif at one time. It would appear that later only those on Borneo, Mindanao, and Suliwesi used the kampilan.