It’s a canon, but what sort?

[M ELEY]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=...72508139445437

[Silver Shield]

I think everybody here has added something here . I myself didn't remember the definition of a " Carronade " , that being a Royal Navy Cast Iron Cannon type that was made by Carron Ironworks in Falkirk Scotland , 1770s to 1850s . And certainly other cannons such as this one had the same basic low velocity large bore for length equation that had the same close range effect . After looking at samples .. and I'm pretty dense, for anyone can spew out Wikipedia data .Yes as has been said most likely a swivel gun. I never thought they came so short , but I saw one example half as long as this one . I just thought it was kinda fishy that the bore obviously had a soft metal like lead hammered down on it , you can see very clearly the surface separation, hammer marks and a edge that has been leftover and into the bore itself . You might contact IMAs they have sold similar Cannon, and I'm sure they could verify if it came from them. I know that some at Least Some Asian countries even used these type for Land and fortification use . Not all Asian cannon are crude .. but is way out of the area of my knowledge base , heck of a intruder defense system.

[kronckew]

just a small note on the nepal connection mentioned. i can see these being used as mountain pack howitzers, carried disassembled on pack animals into the mountanous regions like nepal where larger field guns would have been almost impossible to transport.

that said, the royal navy had on many occasions dismounted quite large ship's cannon and hauled them into seemingly impossible locations ashore into earthworks for defending headlands, river mouths, etc. - but not into 'the hindu kush'.

p.s. - the hammered plate may have been used to cover up military markings from a previous life, grinding them off would weaken the side walls.

p.p.s. - another note: the brits favoured carronades because they used them to great effect battling the french and their allies, they, like the brits would start with a long range cannonade, then quickly close within yards of the opposing ship and pound them into submission. the british carronades were faster to reload and threw an enormous ball or charge of grapeshot compared to the long guns, and this close pounding usually meant a british victory.

the USN simply danced around the brits and pounded the crud out of them well before closing to finish them off. the USS constitution (still in commission) was called old ironsides because british cannonballs were seen to bounce off her thick oak sides, i suspect those bounces were from the lower velocity carronades.

[NeilUK]

As Kronckew has implied, this gun may be a cannon, it is certainly not a canon (the church would be horrified!). Seriously though, in fact it is not a carronade either - these large bore, short range guns were much more built up at the breech, tapering more to the muzzle with (usually) a step down immediately before the muzzle itself. Also they did not have trunnions, in order to fit narrow spaces; instead they were fitted to the carriage by a loop underneath the barrel which swivelled vertically on a bracket fixed to the carriage. Hope this helps the discussion.
Neil

[kronckew]

early carronades sometimes did have trunnions, the more standard later UK form was as you describe, but there were variations. the wood carriage one doesn't use a high elevating screw like the iron carriaged one. later uk ones has the trunnions mounted under the barrel and used the elevating screw on a sliding carriage. the one in the OP's post is tapered from the breech towards the muzzle. it doesn't have the 'usual' step down area. 'usual' implies some did not, ie. is most often there but not mandatory.

i use 'carronade' as a description and function based on it's dictionary definition: a short large-calibre cannon, formerly in naval use.like a 'shashka' (see recent thread on it), the definiton is flexible and can cover a number of related regional and period differences. as an aside 'canon' i believe is the french term for a cannon, but we use english here for a variety of reasons... i lastly show a venerable canon of the salisbury cathedral, which is armed with a number of canons, some of which may be loose.

[fernando]

Instead of looking at it as a bronze cannon with an iron sleeve, why not thinking of it as being an iron cannon with a bronze cover ? The muzzle face has a story to tell, as maybe also that touch hole into a recess. Also the owner could tell us something like, for one, the actual touch hole face being iron.
I know this risks to be completelty silly but, i was 'inspired' by a blunderbuss of mine which, instead of having what 'should' be a bronze muzzle section, has only a bronze covering pellicle ... for decoration sake.


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[NeilUK]

OK thanks, Kronckew, I bow to your superior knowledge. Because I happen to live only 10 miles (16 km) from the Carron Iron Works where these guns were made I have a particular regard for them!
Neil