Oldest Known European Metal Tool ? The Start of it all

David · 26th August 2016, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silver Shield

Michael P.
Former president and founder of the Central AZ Chapter of the American Institute of Archeology

Michael, it's nice to know that we have a former representative from such a prestigious organization, but i am having some trouble locating any informational reference to the American Institute of Archeology on the internet.
I can find the Archaeological Institute of America, the Society for American Archaeology, the Society for Archaeological Sciences, the Society for Historical Archaeology, etc., but no website for your organization. I do find it sometimes listed in resumés here and there so obviously it exists in some capacity. Is it a defunct organization? If not, is there a website we can visit that can explain the work this organization has done?

Silver Shield · 26th August 2016, 06:13 PM

Here is Site for the Archaeological Institute of America, the oldest and a well respected Society in the USA . Most professional archaeologists and hordes of those interested , amateur archaeologists and mentally deranged are members . They support work and publish some studies and put out the magazine " Archaeology". In the meetings once a month they bring in Well respected and important Academics from around the US and world ,even such people as Salema Ickrum , of the Egyptian Museum . Some of my house guests at the time where just plain , Cool. The only complaint I ever had was one middle aged Archaeologist who did not like getting in and out of the Corvette I was driving at the time . The Chapter I formed was based at Arizona State University, which has a very respected Archaeological department . I was not a ASU staff member , but have always been a independent professional in related fields .

https://www.archaeological.org/

Silver Shield · 26th August 2016, 06:14 PM

I never get title right its been awhile and I am old .. LOL also a couple pictures of a more solid nature , naturally occurring , Copper can be found in very large masses and does not always have such a spidery shape or such obvious attachments of inclusions as shown in a previous post . One nugget in these pictures weighs 44g. Easy to work with it actually.

David · 26th August 2016, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silver Shield

Here is Site for the Archaeological Institute of America, the oldest and a well respected Society in the USA .
https://www.archaeological.org/

Thanks. I couldn't find it because to used the wrong spelling in your original post, an acceptable, though lesser used version of the word "archaeology" that drops the second "a".

Silver Shield · 26th August 2016, 08:51 PM

David ,
Thank you for your comments sir, and interest . Yes I am a archaic and cannot spell nor write ,otherwise I would have most likely been in a different field .I'm just a stylistic analyzer in life . LOL

ChrisPer · 28th August 2016, 03:21 PM

Interesting discussion, thank you.
Has the object been subjected to spark spectroscopic analysis? I would expect native copper to have a clear compositional signature.

Silver Shield · 28th August 2016, 05:16 PM

ChrisPer thank you for your question , that's a good one . I never had a doubt about composition , as I have seen other items including bronze and brass in similar states of decay and have always found that the migration of copper and its salts in these alloys even if strongly present on the surface always is very thin in its depth. So usually with just a scratch test you get through it and you get the yellow metal alloy color if your test the object. Now I never said it was not heated or partially melted but melting (Cu 1085 C ) leaves slag which gets smooth surfaces being composed of associated minerals attached or inclusionally in the mass . If encapsulated it leaves cavities with rounded or smooth surfaces in the cavities ,until distorted by percussion ect. . The voids and cavities in this object have sharp angular profiles , generally. Now copper as found in nature is always pure while such metals as Gold and Silver always have at least trace amounts of each other as found in natural occurring mass .That's why the first coins where Electrum .
The object has no value , it has no provenance other than" found around there" . The deep patina is from a marine environment , it was found in the Black Sea area of Bulgaria . I scratch tested it , its copper . It is only a curiosity ,and is only a representative piece with the properties expected of the 1st metal tools , but its form makes no sense other than used as a hand held tool ie a "Hand Axe" , at least that after years of thought and input have suggested . From field work over many decades, my experience , well my rather percussion damaged mind , says it copper . But as I know, I could always be wrong as it is the Human Condition.

ChrisPer · 31st August 2016, 09:23 AM

Very interesting, thank you Silver Shield.

26th August 2016, 06:13 PM	#2
Silver Shield Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Phoenix Arizona USA Posts: 32	Here is site Here is Site for the Archaeological Institute of America, the oldest and a well respected Society in the USA . Most professional archaeologists and hordes of those interested , amateur archaeologists and mentally deranged are members . They support work and publish some studies and put out the magazine " Archaeology". In the meetings once a month they bring in Well respected and important Academics from around the US and world ,even such people as Salema Ickrum , of the Egyptian Museum . Some of my house guests at the time where just plain , Cool. The only complaint I ever had was one middle aged Archaeologist who did not like getting in and out of the Corvette I was driving at the time . The Chapter I formed was based at Arizona State University, which has a very respected Archaeological department . I was not a ASU staff member , but have always been a independent professional in related fields . https://www.archaeological.org/ Last edited by Silver Shield; 26th August 2016 at 08:46 PM. Reason: spelling corrected

26th August 2016, 06:14 PM	#3
Silver Shield Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Phoenix Arizona USA Posts: 32	LOL I never get title right its been awhile and I am old .. LOL also a couple pictures of a more solid nature , naturally occurring , Copper can be found in very large masses and does not always have such a spidery shape or such obvious attachments of inclusions as shown in a previous post . One nugget in these pictures weighs 44g. Easy to work with it actually. Attached Images Last edited by Silver Shield; 26th August 2016 at 08:18 PM.

26th August 2016, 08:51 PM	#5
Silver Shield Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Phoenix Arizona USA Posts: 32	Thank You David , Thank you for your comments sir, and interest . Yes I am a archaic and cannot spell nor write ,otherwise I would have most likely been in a different field .I'm just a stylistic analyzer in life . LOL

28th August 2016, 05:16 PM	#7
Silver Shield Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Phoenix Arizona USA Posts: 32	Copper ? Good Question ! ChrisPer thank you for your question , that's a good one . I never had a doubt about composition , as I have seen other items including bronze and brass in similar states of decay and have always found that the migration of copper and its salts in these alloys even if strongly present on the surface always is very thin in its depth. So usually with just a scratch test you get through it and you get the yellow metal alloy color if your test the object. Now I never said it was not heated or partially melted but melting (Cu 1085 C ) leaves slag which gets smooth surfaces being composed of associated minerals attached or inclusionally in the mass . If encapsulated it leaves cavities with rounded or smooth surfaces in the cavities ,until distorted by percussion ect. . The voids and cavities in this object have sharp angular profiles , generally. Now copper as found in nature is always pure while such metals as Gold and Silver always have at least trace amounts of each other as found in natural occurring mass .That's why the first coins where Electrum . The object has no value , it has no provenance other than" found around there" . The deep patina is from a marine environment , it was found in the Black Sea area of Bulgaria . I scratch tested it , its copper . It is only a curiosity ,and is only a representative piece with the properties expected of the 1st metal tools , but its form makes no sense other than used as a hand held tool ie a "Hand Axe" , at least that after years of thought and input have suggested . From field work over many decades, my experience , well my rather percussion damaged mind , says it copper . But as I know, I could always be wrong as it is the Human Condition.

28th August 2016, 03:21 PM	#6
ChrisPer Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 35	Interesting discussion, thank you. Has the object been subjected to spark spectroscopic analysis? I would expect native copper to have a clear compositional signature.

31st August 2016, 09:23 AM	#8
ChrisPer Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 35	Very interesting, thank you Silver Shield.