My first Keris

nechesh · 11th February 2006, 10:51 PM

Nice first keris. An oldie and a goodie. Nice, well formed ricikan (carved features). Surakarta dress. Can you do some close-up? It reminds me quite a lot of my first one in many ways. Just a warning. They are addicting.

Henk · 12th February 2006, 08:13 AM

Lovely 13 luk keris from Solo, Surakarta. For a starter this is a very good keris.
This keris is called a keris bolong. Bolong is refering to the holes in the sogokan. It is said that when the owner is looking through the holes to a woman he wants, he will get her.

Happy hunting

simatua · 12th February 2006, 08:47 AM

A nice old keris, indeed in a Solo dress. This kind of shape (dapur) with 13 luk was very popular with Maduranese soldiers in service of Solonese army.
So many times we can see a blade made in Madura. The name of the dapur is Parungsari or Sangelat, which depends on a little difference ; If it has 1 or Djalu memet: 1= Parungsari or 2= Sangkelat

sorry cannot translate djalu memet, but i will try make it clear with a photo
example a parungsari:

simatua · 12th February 2006, 09:33 AM

example:

nechesh · 12th February 2006, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henk

Lovely 13 luk keris from Solo, Surakarta. For a starter this is a very good keris.
This keris is called a keris bolong. Bolong is refering to the holes in the sogokan. It is said that when the owner is looking through the holes to a woman he wants, he will get her.

Happy hunting

There has been some serious debate as to whether or not this is "true" bolong (also seen spelled combong and complong). Some will insist that real bolong exist only when it was there from the start as a feature created by the empu. I have seen such keris, though they are somewhat rare. I have heard it argued that calling this bolong it merely an attempt to place a higher spiritual value on what is ultimately a defect in the keris making revealed through years of acidic etching. IMO though, i think when a blade has lasted this long and received constant attention (i.e. washing) that it does deservre some added respect. But i wouldn't set your wedding date yet.

The bit of metal stuck in the hole is curious and interesting. Any idea of it's actual composition? I could, as suggested, be a way of honoring the keris. The idea of a repair seems unlikely to me because i would expect it to fill the entire hole and probably both.
The mendak looks pretty old and tired and has lost all it's stones . You might want to further honor the keris by replacing it with a new one. Nice quality mendaks are available at relatively resonable prices. (see the mendak on simatau's keris).
BTW Martin, why do you think this one is Madurese? And where does your information about Madurese soldiers preferring 13 luk blades come from. I have never read that.

simatua · 12th February 2006, 03:09 PM

You'r right about the mendak nechesh, I did put on a new one because there was no mendak at all.
personally i preffer an old one, even with some damage or stones etc missing than a fancy new mendak.
taste is different. About the info...I look it up and come back.

Nechesch can you show us a photo of your keris with the forged bolong?
thanks

Henk · 12th February 2006, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechesh

The bit of metal stuck in the hole is curious and interesting. Any idea of it's actual composition? I could, as suggested, be a way of honoring the keris. The idea of a repair seems unlikely to me because i would expect it to fill the entire hole and probably both.

BTW Martin, why do you think this one is Madurese? And where does your information about Madurese soldiers preferring 13 luk blades come from. I have never read that.

The piece of metal in the hole is not a piece of nickle that resisted the etching. Not a strange thought because the iron of the blade is eaten away while the nickle resists the etching. It is added later and in my opinion you should remove it. IMHO it is not something to honor the keris. By honoring the keris I'm sure something more valueable would be added.

That madurese soldiers prefered 13 luk blades is also new for me. I'm very curious to hear where you got that information.

simatua · 13th February 2006, 07:22 PM

To Nechesh, Henk and all other keris lovers/colectors.
first of all its good to have some criticism and have questions if someone makes a statement or say something about kerises.

There are many articles and books written about kerises, but as we say in the Netherlands "not everything cuts wood" many things written do not have a good source and opinions of several writers are different.

this forum is ment to have fun and learn from eachother, although for me.
to stick to the true, is imo important.
The statement i put on " that madures soldiers preffer 13 luk blades" i cannot build upon a fundation found in - a to my eyes - reliable source.

seeing this blade;looking at the pamor, it gave me the idea that it came from Madura.i m a keris colllector/learner for about 10 yrs, and from the things i have seen and compared i still think it is...other opinions are more than welcome, after all this is a discussion forum.

That many kerises from madura can be found in a Surakarta dress, comes true the fact that after the Java war(1825-1830) many soldiers were permantly quartered in the so called "Land of the princes" Solo/Dyogya.

maybe i'dd mixed some things up..hope to straiten it by this.

Henk · 15th February 2006, 01:30 PM

Martin,

Just like you we have fun on the forum and learn a lot from our fellow members.
Please, dont see the remarks Nechesh and I made as criticism. Because it isn't. We just want to know where your info comes from.

As a dutch just like you are, you and I know that especially on the subject keris the knowledge about the keris is not always found in books. A lot of our fellow countrymen where inhabitants of Indonesia who came in the fifties to Holland and they didn't wrote their knowledge in books but passed it oral to their sons and the interested dutch youngsters who where fascinated by the keris and wanted ancious to learn. That last part was certainly for me.

I for instance have on a small sheet written down by an Indonesian friend of my in those days the steps for cleaning the keris. I bet that that is not found in any book. Scientific?? Certainly not!! But for me it is a treasure and the knowledge passed to me how to take care for your keris. And it is just as you said and other forum members made that remark before, also the authors of the books differ in their opinions and made mistakes.

So don't see it as an attack. We just want to gather knowledge just like you.

nechesh · 15th February 2006, 01:55 PM

Thanks for clarifying your position Martin. Still, i think i will stick with Javanese origin, probably sometime in the Mataram kingdom.
As Henk said, we were both interested in your source for yur comment on Madurese soldiers because when we hear a factoid that we haven't heard before we wonder what references we are missing in our libraries.

Valjhun · 12th February 2006, 10:25 AM

Gentlemen, thank you all for your help!

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechesh

Just a warning. They are addicting.

Nechesh, I bet it, as soon I have recived it, I needed at least one more...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henk

Bolong is refering to the holes in the sogokan. It is said that when the owner is looking through the holes to a woman he wants, he will get her.

Happy hunting

What a coincidence, just the one I needed

Ehm,... Would be just looking to the foto of her enough? I really do not want to scare her....

Here are some aditional immages. Simatua, a Sangkelat, I guess? What is the meaning/purpose of that bright metal insert in the Bolong?

simatua · 12th February 2006, 11:30 AM

a sangelat indeed, it has a double djalu memet.
I Dont know exactly what the bright metal insert the bolong means.
I know that manytimes often through the many washings due to the "hormat" = honour given at the keris. The keris gets this bolong at the thinnest places first.
in my opinion there some possibilities:
1. It was there all the time , only this piece of metal (nickel) was more resistent to the arsenic then normal iron, and still stucked there

2.The owner attatched a high value at this keris. rapairing the(starting) bolong with strange iron different than the keris is "not done" , so the reapairing was done with a different metal. Sometimes you see reparations on old kerise done with gold.

3. Its inserted to give more powers at the powers already existed.
in this case i would certainly take this keris to the disco...

....i hope the kerisexperts/lovers can tell more about it

ariel · 12th February 2006, 06:10 PM

I guess Valjhun owes this Forum a complete account of the consequences of his trip to the singles bar.
If he reports a success, I am screwing a hole in one of my krises

nechesh · 12th February 2006, 06:14 PM

Martin, the keris with the forged bolong was not mine. I will see if i can obtain any photos of it.
Personally, i like older mendaks as well, but not if they have considerable damage or loss. For me it is a gesture to the spirit of the keris to dress it appropriately.

12th February 2006, 09:33 AM	#4
simatua Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 69	parungsari example: Attached Images

12th February 2006, 03:09 PM	#6
simatua Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 69	replacing the mendak You'r right about the mendak nechesh, I did put on a new one because there was no mendak at all. personally i preffer an old one, even with some damage or stones etc missing than a fancy new mendak. taste is different. About the info...I look it up and come back. Nechesch can you show us a photo of your keris with the forged bolong? thanks

13th February 2006, 07:22 PM	#8
simatua Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 69	criticism is good To Nechesh, Henk and all other keris lovers/colectors. first of all its good to have some criticism and have questions if someone makes a statement or say something about kerises. There are many articles and books written about kerises, but as we say in the Netherlands "not everything cuts wood" many things written do not have a good source and opinions of several writers are different. this forum is ment to have fun and learn from eachother, although for me. to stick to the true, is imo important. The statement i put on " that madures soldiers preffer 13 luk blades" i cannot build upon a fundation found in - a to my eyes - reliable source. seeing this blade;looking at the pamor, it gave me the idea that it came from Madura.i m a keris colllector/learner for about 10 yrs, and from the things i have seen and compared i still think it is...other opinions are more than welcome, after all this is a discussion forum. That many kerises from madura can be found in a Surakarta dress, comes true the fact that after the Java war(1825-1830) many soldiers were permantly quartered in the so called "Land of the princes" Solo/Dyogya. maybe i'dd mixed some things up..hope to straiten it by this.

11th February 2006, 10:51 PM	#1
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Nice first keris. An oldie and a goodie. Nice, well formed ricikan (carved features). Surakarta dress. Can you do some close-up? It reminds me quite a lot of my first one in many ways. Just a warning. They are addicting.

12th February 2006, 08:13 AM	#2
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Lovely 13 luk keris from Solo, Surakarta. For a starter this is a very good keris. This keris is called a keris bolong. Bolong is refering to the holes in the sogokan. It is said that when the owner is looking through the holes to a woman he wants, he will get her. Happy hunting

12th February 2006, 08:47 AM	#3
simatua Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 69	A nice old keris, indeed in a Solo dress. This kind of shape (dapur) with 13 luk was very popular with Maduranese soldiers in service of Solonese army. So many times we can see a blade made in Madura. The name of the dapur is Parungsari or Sangelat, which depends on a little difference ; If it has 1 or Djalu memet: 1= Parungsari or 2= Sangkelat sorry cannot translate djalu memet, but i will try make it clear with a photo example a parungsari:

15th February 2006, 01:30 PM	#9
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Martin, Just like you we have fun on the forum and learn a lot from our fellow members. Please, dont see the remarks Nechesh and I made as criticism. Because it isn't. We just want to know where your info comes from. As a dutch just like you are, you and I know that especially on the subject keris the knowledge about the keris is not always found in books. A lot of our fellow countrymen where inhabitants of Indonesia who came in the fifties to Holland and they didn't wrote their knowledge in books but passed it oral to their sons and the interested dutch youngsters who where fascinated by the keris and wanted ancious to learn. That last part was certainly for me. I for instance have on a small sheet written down by an Indonesian friend of my in those days the steps for cleaning the keris. I bet that that is not found in any book. Scientific?? Certainly not!! But for me it is a treasure and the knowledge passed to me how to take care for your keris. And it is just as you said and other forum members made that remark before, also the authors of the books differ in their opinions and made mistakes. So don't see it as an attack. We just want to gather knowledge just like you.

15th February 2006, 01:55 PM	#10
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Thanks for clarifying your position Martin. Still, i think i will stick with Javanese origin, probably sometime in the Mataram kingdom. As Henk said, we were both interested in your source for yur comment on Madurese soldiers because when we hear a factoid that we haven't heard before we wonder what references we are missing in our libraries.

12th February 2006, 11:30 AM	#12
simatua Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 69	a sangelat indeed, it has a double djalu memet. I Dont know exactly what the bright metal insert the bolong means. I know that manytimes often through the many washings due to the "hormat" = honour given at the keris. The keris gets this bolong at the thinnest places first. in my opinion there some possibilities: 1. It was there all the time , only this piece of metal (nickel) was more resistent to the arsenic then normal iron, and still stucked there 2.The owner attatched a high value at this keris. rapairing the(starting) bolong with strange iron different than the keris is "not done" , so the reapairing was done with a different metal. Sometimes you see reparations on old kerise done with gold. 3. Its inserted to give more powers at the powers already existed. in this case i would certainly take this keris to the disco... ....i hope the kerisexperts/lovers can tell more about it

12th February 2006, 06:10 PM	#13
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I guess Valjhun owes this Forum a complete account of the consequences of his trip to the singles bar. If he reports a success, I am screwing a hole in one of my krises

12th February 2006, 06:14 PM	#14
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Martin, the keris with the forged bolong was not mine. I will see if i can obtain any photos of it. Personally, i like older mendaks as well, but not if they have considerable damage or loss. For me it is a gesture to the spirit of the keris to dress it appropriately.