SOLO KRATON KERIS AUCTIONED / GIFT FROM JAVANESE ROYALS TO DUTCH BANKER

[asomotif]

Hello Rick,

The seller claims that the keris comes from the granddaughter of this banker.
Here is the link to the Original listing :

http://veiling.catawiki.nl/kavels/68...-java-indonesi

We are not discussing prices here, but If you check the link, you will see that Alan's rule does not apply here :

Just because a keris has been presented to somebody, by somebody, it does not mean that its value is any more than the sum value of its individual parts.

My questions regarding this keris are the following.
- the red fabric in the center of the pendok is described as a proof of high status. Is this true ?
- The pendokok/mendak has a name in it, but the technique used does not look like an indonesian way of working to me.
- The selut seems very recent to me.
- The "royal" family crest on the back of the keris. Is this a know decoration ?



Best regards,
Willem

[Battara]

Alan, thank you. Again, I have learned.

[A. G. Maisey]

Willem, any rule is only as good as the place where it applies.

Traffic in Australia travels on the left hand side of the road. That's the rule here.

Traffic in many other countries travels on the right hand side of the road. That's the rule in those other places.

Get a bit mixed up and you might die.

My approach to the keris, most especially the Javanese and Balinese keris is a cultural/societal approach. The way I think about and evaluate a keris is based in values and mores that apply to the keris in Jawa, and that were taught to me by Javanese people, amongst them two Karaton Surakarta empus. Before I learnt how to think about the keris in a way that is in harmony with these values and mores my way of looking at the keris was perhaps a little more aligned to the way in which most collectors think, particularly collectors who are outside these keris bearing societies. Although I can understand how others may think about the keris, and although I myself may have thought in a similar way in the past, I have left that way of thinking behind me a very long time ago.

Regarding the colour red. Within the Surakarta Karaton a red kemalo pendok is reserved for wear by members of the royal family or a bupati. This does not necessarily apply outside the kraton and use is situational. A red cloth insert is not a red kemalo pendok, but arguably it may be read in the same way.

This selut style does exist in early seluts, but the one pictured here probably dates from at the very earliest, the 1970's.

The mendak could have been marked with the name in Jawa, it is very simple embossing work, and the Javanese craftsmen are some of the best in the world at this craft. But the question is why it was so marked. Personally I have not the slightest idea why.

The "Royal Family Crest" ?
Sorry, I cannot see any such thing.
What I can see is a little wreath with a couple of Javanese letters in it. This might be a maker's mark, something a previous owner has had put there, a pattern number --- it could be anything. This sort of marking on the back of a pendok is very common.

Stories and sales hype.

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

The "Royal Family Crest" ?
Sorry, I cannot see any such thing.
What I can see is a little wreath with a couple of Javanese letters in it. This might be a maker's mark, something a previous owner has had put there, a pattern number --- it could be anything. This sort of marking on the back of a pendok is very common.

Stories and sales hype.

That was my impression too. That isn't the Surakarta Kraton crest.

However, I have seen many kerises bearing the Kraton crest on sale for around 50 Euros in the Surakarta antique market. Didn't buy any because I thought they were overpriced... so you can get an idea about their quality.

[A. G. Maisey]

To be able to buy quality , on the ground, in Solo, you need connections.

Connections take time to build.

No connections, you don't even get to see quality, let alone buy it.

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

To be able to buy quality , on the ground, in Solo, you need connections.

Connections take time to build.

No connections, you don't even get to see quality, let alone buy it.

Hello Alan,

Yes, you are right, as I checked it out myself! I even saw a couple of dealers but they only had average and sub-average stuff.

So I ended up buying a Keris from a dealer here in the Netherlands.

[asomotif]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

This selut style does exist in early seluts, but the one pictured here probably dates from at the very earliest, the 1970's.

The mendak could have been marked with the name in Jawa, it is very simple embossing work, and the Javanese craftsmen are some of the best in the world at this craft. But the question is why it was so marked. Personally I have not the slightest idea why.

.

Here are 2 more pictures of the selut/mendak combi.

The selut looks recent to me as well.
And the mendak also looks like construction of not matching parts.
Original sorsorran and meniran . but the part with the inscription looks very western european in my opinion.

I would not be surprised if this was part of an office stamp used at the bank.

[asomotif]

Ps. the keris is of excellent forging. Proof is offered by this picture.
well forged keris appear to have a good balance and can stand alone.

any opinions on this balance story ?

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by asomotif

Ps. the keris is of excellent forging. Proof is offered by this picture.
well forged keris appear to have a good balance and can stand alone.

any opinions on this balance story ?

Theoretically you should be able to do this with every single keris. Didn't try it myself but it's basic physics completely independent from the quality of the Keris. You may check it out by rotating the handle so to be out of balance. You should be able to make it stand even with the handle rotated... albeit it will stand at a slight inclination angle.


PS: Now I tried it myself and couldn't make it stand whatsoever. And the seller showed me that it stands... Maybe one needs a steady hand.

I attached the Surakarta sultan crest

[David]

Originally Posted by asomotif

Ps. the keris is of excellent forging. Proof is offered by this picture.
well forged keris appear to have a good balance and can stand alone.

any opinions on this balance story ?

Sorry Willem, i can balance most keris regardless of the quality of the forging.

[Roland_M]

Originally Posted by asomotif

any opinions on this balance story ?

Yes, try it on a hard wooden surface.
With the carpet it is more wedged within the carpet with the scabbard as a kind of bearing.

Some keris are able to stand on wood or stone almost without the help of the scabbard. I really don't know, whether this is a sign of quality or not but I have one Keris, which stands on its tip almost by itself after few seconds.


Roland

[A. G. Maisey]

Its MAGIK!!!

And obviously very, very important.

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Its MAGIK!!!

And obviously very, very important.

Brilliant! Thank you!

[Rick]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Its MAGIK!!!

And obviously very, very important.

Earth Magick Alan.
Regular balancing of your kerises is important to ones chi you know...

[asomotif]

Originally Posted by Roland_M

Yes, try it on a hard wooden surface.
With the carpet it is more wedged within the carpet with the scabbard as a kind of bearing.

Some keris are able to stand on wood or stone almost without the help of the scabbard. I really don't know, whether this is a sign of quality or not but I have one Keris, which stands on its tip almost by itself after few seconds.


Roland

Maybe I will give it a try with a few of my keris.

I have only tried this in the past with a broom stick and with a broom stick it worked. based on that experience I fail to see the relation to good forging / quality.

[Roland_M]

Originally Posted by asomotif

based on that experience I fail to see the relation to good forging / quality.

Just a theory!!
A Keris, which stands easily on its tip is well balanced and this increases the value in a serious situation, provides a better feeling for the blade.

For Indonesians it is often very important, that the Keris stands on its tip easily and I think we all know not enough to laugh about it and put it in the empire of Esoteric.


Roland

[David]

Originally Posted by asomotif

Here are 2 more pictures of the selut/mendak combi.

The selut looks recent to me as well.
And the mendak also looks like construction of not matching parts.
Original sorsorran and meniran . but the part with the inscription looks very western european in my opinion.

I would not be surprised if this was part of an office stamp used at the bank.

Willem, i can only read parts of what is written around the mendak. Could you write it out for us. I see what looks like "Rotterdam" and then maybe "Weezenber" (???) but i can see there are more letters involved.

[asomotif]

Originally Posted by David

Willem, i can only read parts of what is written around the mendak. Could you write it out for us. I see what looks like "Rotterdam" and then maybe "Weezenber" (???) but i can see there are more letters involved.

Hello David,

* VAN WEEZENBEEK * ROTTERDAM