Keris exhibitions in Patani and Jogja

[David]

Originally Posted by Green

1)... for many of the collectors in this region they prefer to keep blades in rusty condition rather than overcleaning and abused of blades like what most of westerners seem to prefer... overcleaning is considered a big no no and devalue the item greatly.

From my limited experience and observation, they'd rather keep the blades un-cleaned and some even prefer it that way, though this sound a bit perverse... and even if they do the cleaning, it'd mostly be light cleaning with coconut water and/or lime with soft scraping with tooth brush followed by rinsing and drying with cloth.And some do an additional process of drying over smoke of incense...

You and i have had this discussion a few times before. I do try to understand regional differences in the maintenance of blades, but I do believe that what you are considering a Western practice of "over-cleaning" is actually a rather traditional Javanese preference for regular cleaning and staining of blades. A rusty blade is generally not tolerated in that culture and would probably be considered disrespectful to the spirit of the blade.
That said, i do understand that the Malay preference is generally not to stain with warangan. However, rust on a blade, aside from being ugly from my own perspective, is undoubtably seriously destructive and, IMHO, abusive to the keris itself. I can assure you that this is an attitude that is not reserved merely for the Western collector.

[Sajen]

I would personally prefer an untouched keris when it will be possible to get it in a not rusted condition and with solid dress. I have a very few of this in my collection. The most have received a good cleaning and new staining of the blades and many times also restore work by the dress. But to collect keris with a complete rusted blade and a dress in sad condition is strange IMVHO. But your pictures show many well kept keris so it seems that there in Malaysia the collectors have different views about this topic.

[David]

Originally Posted by Sajen

I would personally prefer an untouched keris when it will be possible to get it in a not rusted condition and with solid dress. I have a very few of this in my collection. The most have received a good cleaning and new staining of the blades and many times also restore work by the dress. But to collect keris with a complete rusted blade and a dress in sad condition is strange IMVHO. But your pictures show many well kept keris so it seems that there in Malaysia the collectors have different views about this topic.

I agree Sajen. I also like to find untouched keris in relatively old dress when the dress is in good condition, though i have been told many times that this penchant for old dress is indeed more of a Western collector's desire. When dress parts such as mendaks, pendoks or even hilts are in poor condition i generally do not hesitate to replace them though. It has been my understanding that keeping keris in old dress simply to maintain the antiqueness of older forms is not the tradition in Jawa, especially if that dress is in bad repair and would be considered disrespectful to the keris itself. This is not a Western concept AFAIK. My worry about rust on blades runs deeper though as it is most certainly damaging to the integrity of the blade itself. Different region obviously deal with their keris in different ways.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by David

....though i have been told many times that this penchant for old dress is indeed more of a Western collector's desire.

Yes, this is exactly what I have seen and learned byself.

[A. G. Maisey]

1) To answer Alan's Q about the correct spelling first... I am not sure which is the right spelling Coteng/Choteng cenok/chenok... modern spelling has done away with 'h' but the pronounciation is exactly the same for both version... just like jogjakarta/yogjakarta etc...

Thanks Green, that makes sense, I speak Bahasa Indonesia, which is based on Malay as spoken in Southern Sumatera, and spellings in that vary from Malay spellings, especially the old English way of spelling Malay words. The "ch" confused me.

"jogjakarta' is not a good parallel example though, there are a number of spoken and written examples with that word.

[satsujinken]

hi all

I posted some pics on Jogjakarta's event, which lasted only 3 days, see my thread

thanks